BA rosters: down to earth
I am more and more looking forward to my 777 course.
Anything else I should know?
The destinations on the 777 are not as bad as are made out sometimes. OK, if you are very junior you might get more of the East Coast trips but if you are determined to have a good time, you will. There are plenty of amusing/intellectual/fun things to do in YUL, BOS, YYZ, EWR, JFK, etc., especially if you have never been there before. The 'triple' is a very friendly fleet so you can have great times in the most unlikely of places.
When you are junior, a reserve month can be quite exciting as you may be called out to a new destination or to ferry an empty a/c. (The RR powered -LR goes up pretty well in those circumstances!) There is no such thing as an 'average' month: they are all different in some way.
You will meet ex-cadets, ex-RAF, ex-stockbrokers, ex-doctors, etc. In fact, just like any other airline.
You're joining at the bottom but remember it gets better from here on in...
Enjoy.
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"It gets better from here on in..."
Not strictly true.
It will until the retirement legislation comes into effect in Oct 06 and then progression and therefore lifestyle improvement will completely stagnate
Not strictly true.
It will until the retirement legislation comes into effect in Oct 06 and then progression and therefore lifestyle improvement will completely stagnate
Thread Starter
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Ok guys, thanks for all the info.
My cautiously posted topic has drawn so many nice answers and examples from you all, that I do seem to have a good idea of the life a junior FO in BA on longhaul might have.
Just for the record: I am on the believers side. For any given job, it will be possible to find negative stuff, but come on: ain't there so much more positive things about being a pilot, and certainly at an airline like BA? The future will not be perfect, but definitely bright and I plan to be in the light with a smile on my face.
flyA380
PS: Aircrafts are full, a pilot shortage is glooming at the horizon and the industry is gearing up to a great 2006. Good!
And in aviation it is impossible to say intelligent things about this bussiness 10 years from now. Is captaincy something you won't get before another 20 years? Will you be stuck on your aircraft forever at the same place? Will BA buy A380's sometime? NOBODY KNOWS!
So let's not be bothered with it and enjoy our great profession.
My cautiously posted topic has drawn so many nice answers and examples from you all, that I do seem to have a good idea of the life a junior FO in BA on longhaul might have.
Just for the record: I am on the believers side. For any given job, it will be possible to find negative stuff, but come on: ain't there so much more positive things about being a pilot, and certainly at an airline like BA? The future will not be perfect, but definitely bright and I plan to be in the light with a smile on my face.
flyA380PS: Aircrafts are full, a pilot shortage is glooming at the horizon and the industry is gearing up to a great 2006. Good!
And in aviation it is impossible to say intelligent things about this bussiness 10 years from now. Is captaincy something you won't get before another 20 years? Will you be stuck on your aircraft forever at the same place? Will BA buy A380's sometime? NOBODY KNOWS!
So let's not be bothered with it and enjoy our great profession.
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The trouble with a lot of the BA moaning that goes on is that a sizeable number of BA pilots have never worked for any other airline. Therefore they have a very strange attitude as to what they think BA owes them.
A reality check into the real world not wrapped up in cotton wool would do some good. The others that wind me up are the ones who moan about time away from home. We are pilots for Christ sake.If you want to be at home every night change jobs.
That's not to say BA doesn't have its issues but compared to most outfits its the dogs ********. Its just that from the inside and with nothing to compare it to people can get a bit precious.
Good luck to all those joining. If you have come from Charter/LoCo/cowboy outfit you will think you will love it because lets be honest chaps....
Its still the place to be ahead, still of Virgin, who I would say come in a comfortable second.
Anyone who says they don't want to work for either of them has either failed selection or doesn't quite get it
A reality check into the real world not wrapped up in cotton wool would do some good. The others that wind me up are the ones who moan about time away from home. We are pilots for Christ sake.If you want to be at home every night change jobs.
That's not to say BA doesn't have its issues but compared to most outfits its the dogs ********. Its just that from the inside and with nothing to compare it to people can get a bit precious.
Good luck to all those joining. If you have come from Charter/LoCo/cowboy outfit you will think you will love it because lets be honest chaps....
Its still the place to be ahead, still of Virgin, who I would say come in a comfortable second.
Anyone who says they don't want to work for either of them has either failed selection or doesn't quite get it
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Normal Nigel,
I don't wanna work for either of them!!!!!
And if I had to choose it would defin be Virgin. Sorry but they are in a different class to BA. I have paxed in both many times, Virgin makes the experience enjoyable rather than a drag.
I'm at a charter outfit. I targeted the charters so I can have the best of both worlds, short and long haul. (Prob like the good old days at BA with 757/767 ops. Prob not long to go before they are finally phased out)
My long haul trips will be of a decent duration. There are some bullets and there are also some week long stays cos thats the only flight of the week. Sadly minimum rest seems the norm now at BA and VS, hence no interest in being constantly knackered.
So you see there are some peeps out here who do look beyond BA and VS. and who can also claim to be sane.
See you by the pool.
I don't wanna work for either of them!!!!!
And if I had to choose it would defin be Virgin. Sorry but they are in a different class to BA. I have paxed in both many times, Virgin makes the experience enjoyable rather than a drag.
I'm at a charter outfit. I targeted the charters so I can have the best of both worlds, short and long haul. (Prob like the good old days at BA with 757/767 ops. Prob not long to go before they are finally phased out)
My long haul trips will be of a decent duration. There are some bullets and there are also some week long stays cos thats the only flight of the week. Sadly minimum rest seems the norm now at BA and VS, hence no interest in being constantly knackered.
So you see there are some peeps out here who do look beyond BA and VS. and who can also claim to be sane.
See you by the pool.
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ATIS
Well if you also like night Larnaca's and back most weeks then fair enough.
Also judging an airline as an employer by how they are as a passenger is not really relevent. the fact is there is fence looking over both ways between BA and VS but more Red to Blue.
I'm sure many charter airlines are good to work for but they are all **** to fly on, however much they dress it up.
Shellsuits rule.
One point of order.
That would be the same 767 fleet curently going through a cabin refit and then converting 4 more to LH config with the real prospect of the last 3 following?
NN
Well if you also like night Larnaca's and back most weeks then fair enough.
Also judging an airline as an employer by how they are as a passenger is not really relevent. the fact is there is fence looking over both ways between BA and VS but more Red to Blue.
I'm sure many charter airlines are good to work for but they are all **** to fly on, however much they dress it up.
Shellsuits rule.
One point of order.
(Prob like the good old days at BA with 757/767 ops. Prob not long to go before they are finally phased out
NN
Last edited by normal_nigel; 31st May 2005 at 20:53.
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True you can't judge an employer by the way that the pax are treated.
I'm sure BA is great to work for. ££££££££'s being one point. However you can't help feeling concerned with the ever increasing amount of negative comments that arise from BA.
One such long haul flight that I took pre 9/11 was a big eye opener.
Thought I'd pay a visit to 747 flightdeck. First I asked the cabin crew who were chilling in the galley. One instantly replied by "Why do you wanna go up there for, the Cpt is a ****** which resulted in a bundle of laughs by the rest of crew.
I eventually made it up there, and had a pleasant chat with the flight crew. Cpt then leaves the flightdeck for call of nature. Cue slaggin off of Cpt.
F/o obviously had a lot to get off his chest. He told me that he was returning to his previous airline cos he couldn't stand being stranded downroute with so many *******.
Now I know that bloke was 1 of 3000, but it does make you think.
Another previous poster talked about not taking any **** from CSD's.
If thats what the atmosphere is like forget the ££££££'s.
I'm sure BA is great to work for. ££££££££'s being one point. However you can't help feeling concerned with the ever increasing amount of negative comments that arise from BA.
One such long haul flight that I took pre 9/11 was a big eye opener.
Thought I'd pay a visit to 747 flightdeck. First I asked the cabin crew who were chilling in the galley. One instantly replied by "Why do you wanna go up there for, the Cpt is a ****** which resulted in a bundle of laughs by the rest of crew.
I eventually made it up there, and had a pleasant chat with the flight crew. Cpt then leaves the flightdeck for call of nature. Cue slaggin off of Cpt.
F/o obviously had a lot to get off his chest. He told me that he was returning to his previous airline cos he couldn't stand being stranded downroute with so many *******.
Now I know that bloke was 1 of 3000, but it does make you think.
Another previous poster talked about not taking any **** from CSD's.
If thats what the atmosphere is like forget the ££££££'s.
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One example is hardly sound foundation to judge a company.
The problems that occur with people are inevitable with a company with over 17000 aircrew.
BA does have its problems. They are not all unique to BA but may be magnified due to the size.
99% of the time working at BA is a very pleasant way to spend your working life with the best salaries and best rostering system in the UK and one of the best in world aviation.
Certainly the choice (with a bit of seniority) is unrivalled or so I'm informed. Also a "free" bid and the chance to change aircraft every 4 years is also a great benefit.
Despite the pension and time to command (potentially worse post 2006) BA still has more to offer than most.
What we need to do is keep plugging away at improving the niggles.
The problems that occur with people are inevitable with a company with over 17000 aircrew.
BA does have its problems. They are not all unique to BA but may be magnified due to the size.
99% of the time working at BA is a very pleasant way to spend your working life with the best salaries and best rostering system in the UK and one of the best in world aviation.
Certainly the choice (with a bit of seniority) is unrivalled or so I'm informed. Also a "free" bid and the chance to change aircraft every 4 years is also a great benefit.
Despite the pension and time to command (potentially worse post 2006) BA still has more to offer than most.
What we need to do is keep plugging away at improving the niggles.
Last edited by normal_nigel; 1st Jun 2005 at 16:52.
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BA....
ATIS et al,
As someone who has recently jumped ship from a rather large UK charter outfit to Big Airways, I’m perhaps in a more appropriate position to comment than some.
I too heard many of the rumours and BA bashing comments before joining, and I have to say, many of them made me think twice! However, with 20/20 hindsight, I cannot agree more with n_n's post that most of the bitching emanates from those who know of nothing else outside BA.
I'm not suggesting BA is prefect for one moment, and there are elements of my previous company that I still prefer. For one, I don't think that the actual flying is quite as much fun - although the destinations are just as varied (Eurofleet LHR anyway).
However, all in all, I don't think there is a comparison. When I moved, my pay increased substantially, I get more leave, more days off, MUCH better roster stability (and my previous package was at least charter industry average). And all this considering that I’m the lowest of the low here at the moment (well, nearly).
Cabin crew too, I have to say, have totally defied the mould so far for me. I find them generally more friendly than in the charter world, and GENERALLY have a bit more about them! Yes, they can be rather militant in terms of their work practices, but that is more the fault of the system in my opinion. And just to round it off, the guy's I sit next to are a great bunch (in 99% of cases anyway!).
There are definitely elements of BA that would make it unsuitable for some. But for those that are interested, please take a lot of what you read here with a pinch of salt and do some thorough research of the facts!
Regards,
C_8
As someone who has recently jumped ship from a rather large UK charter outfit to Big Airways, I’m perhaps in a more appropriate position to comment than some.
I too heard many of the rumours and BA bashing comments before joining, and I have to say, many of them made me think twice! However, with 20/20 hindsight, I cannot agree more with n_n's post that most of the bitching emanates from those who know of nothing else outside BA.
I'm not suggesting BA is prefect for one moment, and there are elements of my previous company that I still prefer. For one, I don't think that the actual flying is quite as much fun - although the destinations are just as varied (Eurofleet LHR anyway).
However, all in all, I don't think there is a comparison. When I moved, my pay increased substantially, I get more leave, more days off, MUCH better roster stability (and my previous package was at least charter industry average). And all this considering that I’m the lowest of the low here at the moment (well, nearly).
Cabin crew too, I have to say, have totally defied the mould so far for me. I find them generally more friendly than in the charter world, and GENERALLY have a bit more about them! Yes, they can be rather militant in terms of their work practices, but that is more the fault of the system in my opinion. And just to round it off, the guy's I sit next to are a great bunch (in 99% of cases anyway!).
There are definitely elements of BA that would make it unsuitable for some. But for those that are interested, please take a lot of what you read here with a pinch of salt and do some thorough research of the facts!
Regards,
C_8
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"for example, if you join on the 777, your basic in year 1 will be £42841. Your pensionable (which BAMPS is based upon) is £32130"
Slightly old quote, but I was wondering: is "basic" the same as "gross yearly income"?
Reason being that I (surprisingly) make considerably more at my local LoCo (okay, I'm a captain).
What am I missing here? Is there a steep pay increase after a few years or an hourly bonus?
I'm a BA DEP applicant and I'm trying to paint myself a complete picture.
Thanx for any info!
Slightly old quote, but I was wondering: is "basic" the same as "gross yearly income"?
Reason being that I (surprisingly) make considerably more at my local LoCo (okay, I'm a captain).
What am I missing here? Is there a steep pay increase after a few years or an hourly bonus?
I'm a BA DEP applicant and I'm trying to paint myself a complete picture.
Thanx for any info!
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New joiner (Longhaul) can expect ~£57000. On a full months flying expect to take home over £3600. Expect that to go up by £200 a month every year (assuming BALPA negotiate a 2.5% rise on top of the agreed payscales).
Couldonlyaffordafiver
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psuelight,
The £42841 is your gross basic pay (before tax). On top of that you will get flight pay (£9 per flying hour) and Time Away From Base pay (£2.64 per hour away from base). Expect around £1200 per month net for a full month's work on the 777.
In practice, your allowances are about the same size as your monthly tax bill therefore your take home will be about the size of your gross basic (give or take). So expect to see about £3600 per month in your bank account.
HF
The £42841 is your gross basic pay (before tax). On top of that you will get flight pay (£9 per flying hour) and Time Away From Base pay (£2.64 per hour away from base). Expect around £1200 per month net for a full month's work on the 777.
In practice, your allowances are about the same size as your monthly tax bill therefore your take home will be about the size of your gross basic (give or take). So expect to see about £3600 per month in your bank account.
HF
Having been on the triple for a while (years) I would offer the following personal opinions on the company and fleet,
great airplane
great cabin crew, (assuming you treat them as respected professional colleagues)
great flightcrew
hard work regardless of position on list
and in the 2 'private life' issues that i have endured the company management have been understanding,supportive and all i could have hoped for,
welcome to all newcomers - its a fantastic place to be
great airplane
great cabin crew, (assuming you treat them as respected professional colleagues)
great flightcrew
hard work regardless of position on list
and in the 2 'private life' issues that i have endured the company management have been understanding,supportive and all i could have hoped for,
welcome to all newcomers - its a fantastic place to be
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Thanks a lot guys,
that sounds more like what I was expecting.
As a juniorish 38ish 737NG captain I make about €84000 gross, about €3700/2500GBp. net monthly (excluding 1-8% profitsharing and 8% gross vacation pay).
So moving to a BA Triple7 would definitely be survivable financially, any ideas about BA B737 pay?
Thanx a lot and sorry for the ignorance,
any other comments appreciated.
that sounds more like what I was expecting.
As a juniorish 38ish 737NG captain I make about €84000 gross, about €3700/2500GBp. net monthly (excluding 1-8% profitsharing and 8% gross vacation pay).
So moving to a BA Triple7 would definitely be survivable financially, any ideas about BA B737 pay?
Thanx a lot and sorry for the ignorance,
any other comments appreciated.
Couldonlyaffordafiver
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737 pay is a couple of grand per year less, can't remember how much exactly. Allowances will be marginally less as well but not by much. You should see over £3000 per month take home.