BA rosters: down to earth

[flyA380]

BA B777 junior FO: down to earth

(I edited the title of this topic from BA Rosters to BA B777 junior FO, since quite some different issues about the junior FO life on B777 are explained here)

Hey guys,

There are bits and pieces of info about BA's working regime all over this forum, but never a clearcut, up-to-date resume.

I have been accepted recently on the B777, a start date is staring me in the face.

I read some positive things and a lot of ultranegative stuff on the BA rosters, so please come out now: how is life for a bottom-of-the-list FO on the B777?

- Can you commute?
- How many days in a row are you on and then off duty? How many days in total is one at home per month on average? Could a BA FO 777 maybe post some roster examples?
- Is it possible to get requests granted (e.g. if you need to be at a wedding or for a weekend...)
- Do you have any weekends off at all?
- Can you plan your vacation days, or do you just get what is left?
- And how much vacation will one have per year at BA?
- How much destinations does the 777 fly to - is there a list somewhere?

BA is hiring at top speed: any answer on this post will be useful to a lot of newcomers.

Thanks a lot!

[Moe Syzlak]

How bad can it be? Take the job! -they don't bond and how many more offers do you have? - BA are unlikely to go down the pan.

[jerrystinger]

Don't be too disappointed, but the BA 777s don't do the better longhaul routes to say the least! Furthermore, the crew slips on the 777 fleet are by and large 24 hr nightstop stateside and middle east. LGW has some beach destinations, but they're snapped up quickly! Good luck anyway.

[The Greaser]

A380

I am also starting on the 777 (in August) and it didn't take me too much trouble to come up with the following list of destinations (of course we will get the minimum rest Newarks, Philadelphias and Washingtons!)

From LHR :

MONTREAL
TORONTO
BALTIMORE
BOSTON
CHICAGO
DENVER
DETROIT
JFK
EWR
PHILADELPHIA
WASHINGTON

LUANDA
CAIRO
ABUJA
HARARE

BAHRAIN
KUWAIT
MUSCAT
DOHA
ABU DHABI
DUBAI

DHAKA
CALCUTTA
ISLAMABAD

BEIJING
SHANGHAI

From LGW :

BERMUDA
ATLANTA
DALLAS
HOUSTON
ORLANDO
TAMPA

ANTIGUA
BRIDGETOWN
GRENADA
KINGSTON
ST LUCIA
TOBAGO


Best Regards

[Human Factor]

Some of the above are shuttle destinations (there and back from somewhere else, ie. DOH from BAH).

Anyway....

- Can you commute?

Certainly. Many people do. As you get more senior you'll have more control over your life so you'll be able to get longer blocks of days off.

- How many days in a row are you on and then off duty?

Typically, three or four on, two off. You can volunteer to reduce the days off to get more days in a block.

How many days in total is one at home per month on average?

Typically without leave, expect about 12-14 days at home per month.

Could a BA FO 777 maybe post some roster examples?

You'll be lucky. Expect 5 trips per month, mainly Eastern Seaboard with two days off in between. Expect to work most weekends. It's rare for 3-crew trips to get as far as the Blind Lines (ie. rostered lines) but not unknown.

- Is it possible to get requests granted (e.g. if you need to be at a wedding or for a weekend...)

If it's something important (wedding, funeral, Cup Final), a quiet word in the office helps if you aren't senior enough to achieve an appropriate Trip Line. Just for a weekend? Well, you can ask....

- Do you have any weekends off at all?

Not many initially (expect zero, be pleased if you get more). You'll get more as your seniority increases.

- Can you plan your vacation days, or do you just get what is left?

Leave is allocated on a points system (not seniority) based on the last eight seasons. If you go for unpopular weeks over the first few seasons (ie. not Christmas or the school holidays), you get most points which gives you more choice in subsequent seasons - if you see what I mean...

- And how much vacation will one have per year at BA?

Four weeks leave (which you cannot work over), two Duty Free Weeks (which you can choose to work over but cannot be forced), so six weeks in total.

- How much destinations does the 777 fly to - is there a list somewhere?

Plenty (the previous post has a full list). Needless to say, the list can change at any time. Shanghai is a new route and in the past it's been to BKK, CPT, KL, Havana, Saudi and all over South America among others. You never know, it may go back.....

After your first five years (or at BA's discretion), subject to your seniority you'll be able to change fleets if the above doesn't suit you.

Welcome aboard.

[mr ripley]

BA 777

I have also been given a course date for 777 in August.

Does antbody have anymore details on the training cse, length breakdown etc?

Regards

[flyA380]

Thanks for the quick replies
Please keep them coming if you have more.

(And change the seniority based system, to a nice point based system before we newcomers get there if you will )

I read that after 6 months, you get staff travel.
Does that work in reality?
I mean, if I would want to commute out of Europe, from a regular BA destination, would it work? Do pilots accept their colleagues on the jumpseat if no seats available?

cheerful greetz

[justinzider]

Expect the course length to be a few days of Admin /Welcome /SEP and CRM. Then 2-3 weeks groundschool followed by 3 weeks Sim.
Not sure about longhaul line training as I'm a Shorthaul W#nker!

Commuting is possible, you can ask for a Flight Deck jumpseat and most of us will take you.

Barcelona, Nice and Geneva would be tricky to commute being junior as there are so many commuters and Staff Travel onload is allocated on Seniority.

See you on a jump seat soon, or perhaps on the 777 soon if I can get out of my initial freeze. I gather the triple is desperate for FO's as is the Scarebus fleet.

J.

[er82]

I'm not from BA, so could be completely wrong about this - although I have got quite a few friends at BA who I heard this from....
Although lots of newcomers have been taken onto the 777, there are also now quite a few internal BA pilots who have just got their bids back and have been given the 777 - although they may not get a course till next May.
So all the guys/gals who are joining now and for the next year will effectively be at the bottom of the seniority, therefore getting the worst trips etc, won't they then continue to be at the bottom as all the longer-serving BA lot move onto the 777 with their mugh higher seniority number?? It could be then that those going straight on the 777 will pretty much have a not-so-good roster for a pretty long time??

[justinzider]

That's about right!!!

[mr ripley]

Has anybody else got some more encouraging views? As far as I am concerned its like the pension, I won't get it so why fret about it. Seniority, it can only get better!

[justinzider]

Ripley,

Not sure where you're working now, but I guess BA will be better.
I moved 4 years ago and haven't looked back.

Seniority will improve slowly and the union haven't given up on improving the DEP pension deal to something that really is market leading or market matching (Virgin).

[Airbrake]

The BA DEP pension scheme will not change for a very long time. Any extra cost incurred by improving the company pension contribution would come from the same pot that will be used for future terms and conditions negotiations.
Those DEPs starting on the 'B' scale will be in the minority for a very long time and no final salary pilots are going to rock the boat and accept reduced benefits just so the new boys (and girls) can get an extra percent into their pension fund!
If you want/need a good pension BA may not be the place to go.

[The Greaser]

Still better than easyJet and many others pension schemes.

[Airbrake]

The pension contribution is better than some other companies, but not all their direct competitors. You really have to sit down and do some hard sums to figure out what is best for you, when you factor in time to command and the associated pay rise as well as your age and time to retirement. It's not an easy thing to assess.
In the past many ex-mil guys would leave the service at 38 with a pension, go to BA and leave at 55 with another pension(probably as a junior LH Capt). That will not happen any more as the goal posts have moved considerably - time to command has increased and pension is worse.

[expedite_climb]

Er82;

Not sure where you got your info from, but not so true. From the last run ~100 FO's leaving the fleet for the -400 or commands and only ~10 joining the fleet.

LOTS of new DEP's joining on the 777 over the coming few years.

Me - been in 3 months - 60 places off the bottom company wise, and over 20 on the fleet already! :-)

FlyA380 - look forward to it - its great ;-)

[maxy101]

I also understand that BA are anticipating almost all pilots to stay on at least a year longer than retirement age when the legislation changes next year. As previous posters/threads have mentioned, there wont be much movement in the future. Anticipate being stuck at the bottom of the bidding for a long time. (Until someone takes BA to a tribunal for discrimination)

[flyA380]

Is it likely that the BA bidding system (solely based on seniority) will ever change? (or that someone will fight it our before a tribunal...

[ixion17]

OK this is back of a fag packet stuff but it is what I am working on. Please feel free to correct if anyone thinks I am way out.

Pension is money purchase - equates to 9% of basic pay (£44k x 9%=approx £4200 pa at the outset)

This will accrue in a pension pot over, lets say 22 years (ages 38-60), at a compound interest of 5% to a princely sum of around £150k to £200k by retirement. With this sum you should be able to take 25% as a tax free lump sum and use the remainder to purchase an annuity. Presently £100k will buy you a £6k pa pension(ish) til the day you croak.

Of course none of this is guaranteed, your pension pot may be worth zilch or a lot more. And of course the risk is all on the individual not the company pension fund.

In summary I've no idea how much the gold plated BA pension is after 22 years , but I bet it is a lot better than £10k (ish) pa, hence the debate!

Hope this helps - I'm no expert, this is just my guesstimate of the situation.

[ixion17]

It's a combination - roughly one third employee, two thirds company.