Jet2 In Manchester

[Paper Lad]

I've got an interview coming up soon with Jet2 and I wondered if anyone has info on the following:

Load factors out of Manch + routes?

I believe that 7 or 8 aircraft are due to be based at Manch. 3 so far when are the others due?

How are they doing getting pilots, especially experienced guys, with the £20 000 training fee and no pay tll LST?

Any info appreciated.

[Nigel Croker]

Have any of the self sponsored guys made it to the line yet?

[unwiseowl]

There are plenty of jobs about these days. Do you really have to pay £20k?

[matzpenetration]

Paper lad,

Routes are on the Jet2 website. Loads appear to be >75%. Working 2-4 sectors per day. Average 65 hours per month. Some time, (1week / month I think) spent flying night cargo in EDI.

There are other jobs around at the moment that don't require you to part with hard earned cash. Try bmi regional, Flybe, BA and Britannia. Many of my colleagues have turned down Jet2 on principal. If you are mad enough to pay for your own rating than you will make more money flying for Astraeus, BMIbaby or EZY.

[Paper Lad]

Thanks for the info guys but I didn't get the job anyhow. I'm not so disappointed 'cos they seem to be trying to do everything with no cost to themselves and I get to keep £20k. I'm also told that the loads are not what was expected (less then 30pax on some LGW sectors!) and rumour has it that thay have already pulled off AMS before even starting.........!

Although they seem to be v successful at LBA., MAN will be a whole different ball-game with a huge amount of determined competition. A great shame for all the new starters with a £20 000+ debt if they bin the Manchester base.

[pilothouse]

Not all is as it might appear. If you actually talk to a Jet2 guy who's parted with his £20k/23k, you will find that he/she is actually very positive about the whole deal.

And that's not all. Okay, you could join EZY - and when exactly do you get to hear about which base you are going work from the next few years?

[atyourcervix73]

Hey Pilothouse....not wishing to point out the obvious, but honestly...would you expect someone who has just parted with 20k/23k admit that it wasnt money well spent? be serious. I have to agree with unwiseowl....even with low hours..there are plenty of jobs about right now, the only thing is...why expect your very first job to be on a jet? The other jobs about are mostly better paid....give relevant experience..and best of all have prospects to move into jets.

Just an opinion

[spanner the cat]

It would appear that if it all goes down the pan, you are left holding the remains of a £20k debt which they are paying back to you at £555+ per month. You can figure it out yourself how much poo you'll be in financially without a job.

I'd say the deal is fairly attractive to someone on a TP salary. The scheme sucks all the same.

[Paper Lad]

Pilothouse,

What a lot of horlicks. Sounds like management-speak to me!

[clearfortheoption]

Paper lad,

Why are you so bitter? You didn't get the job so what's the big deal ?as other people have pointed out go and grab the million other jobs out there!!! Hurry!!!

Your reply to pilothouse should have been more polite to say the least.

[pilothouse]

I repeat, ask a Jet 2 guy!

Suppose he lives in Leeds and wants to work there too. The alternative is maybe to work for EZY out of Dortmund. As well as the time and effort needed to get home, it's a huge expense.

Taking into account tax that you don't have to pay, the £20k works out at £11.9k net - as small price to pay for not having to go to Dortmund for several years.

Yes, Channex/Jet2 might go bust but then so might anybody. And at least there aren't a frightening number of glossy new aircraft on huge leases just waiting to drag the company under when the downturn inevitably arrives.

[EPRman]

The £20000 personal loan (of which they pay back the capital but not interest) would be easier to swallow if they paid you during training and didn't put you on a seemingly punitive reduced salary of £53761 for 3 years (capt). Anyone in the LHS with a reputable airline is not going to move for that. Perhaps it explains why Jet2 is having to advertise again this week and why they're having to employ contract captains.

[atyourcervix73]

Couldnt have summed it up any better EPR man.....at least with experienced crew they cant get away with taking the P**s. With a bit of luck..mangement will see sense..and pay crew what they are worth, not what they think they can get away with

[Norman Stanley Fletcher]

I think some balance must be brought here. I work for easyJet but in years gone by used to work for what was then Channel Express and so know both well. The harsh reality of the low cost world is that if you want a Boeing or Airbus rating you will have to pay for it somehow or other. It is easy to criticise these companies but the other side of the coin is that they have been fleeced by guys doing a runner and not paying the bond plus they must compete by keeping costs down. Remember there is wicked competition out there and paying £20k+ for every pilot trained is just not going to happen these days. In truth, Jet2 is not that bad a deal but you cannot speak of working for them in the same breath as working for easyJet. A captain at easyJet who is working normally will get paid in the regon of £80k per year including all allowances which is way in excess of Jet 2's salaries. After 2 years the loyalty bonuses kick in as well which are 5% per annum until 5 years where it becomes 10%.

The boss of Jet2 (PM) is a hard guy and will leave you in the gutter with nothing if the need arises (just ask any F27 pilot) - but he is also a great businessman. He has chosen a hard world to go into and has basically followed easyJet to the letter. He was right to do so because easyJet's business model really works and they are now into the dual business of defending their own territory and fighting everyone else on their new routes. The one difference is PM has gone for clapped-out old 737-300s whereas easyJet have gone now for the A319 which is more efficient and faster (and much nicer to fly but that is another story). PM has taken a calculated gamble as he probably got his aircraft for pennies and is willing to take the extra running costs to offset it. He can also only attract pilots on grounds of geographical location because the salaries are so bad. Nevertheless there is a steady stream of ex-turboprop guys who are joining Jet2, biting the bullet, and will in the end have some serious jet time in with which to get themselves a better deal somewhere better. What I am saying is do not knock Jet2 - they are taking on the big boys and PM rarely makes big business errors. easyJet undoubtedly see him as a threat, and with good reason. Time will tell if PM is up to the battle with easyJet and Ryanair and I certainly would not write him off.

It is not meant as an insult, and please do not take it as such, but Jet 2 is the bottom end of the jet market and you should not deceive yourselves otherwise. In terms of employers, if you are offered a job with Jet2 then it is a brave man who turns it down without a good alternative. If, however, you are in that most fortunate of positions of having an offer from another Boeing or Airbus operator then my strong advice would be to not touch Jet2 with a barge pole.

[10002level]

The people who are likely to take an interest in Jet2's type rated sponsorship scheme for the LHS are those coming out of the RAF. They will take direct entry captains with suitable command experience (ie Tristar, Nimrod, etc) directly from the RAF and to a pilot leaving the forces £53k looks like a reasonable salary. The alternative would be a job with a "higher level" operator in the RHS with perhaps a long wait to command.

However, I have to agree with the previous post that there are better alternatives out there and until the penny drops with Jet2 that they will not be able to crew their aircraft on uncompetative terms they will continue to struggle.

Nevertheless, I wish the company well with their operations from Manchester.

[Jet2]

Like most jobs it comes down to what your circumstances are and what you want from the job. Personally as a new FO I think it's a great job. Many airlines, particularly lo-cost, charge for the type rating, whether they ask for the cash up front or take it from your salary when on line so nothing out of the ordinary there. I can't speak for Captain's but understand that the package may not match up so shop around if you feel there is better for you elsewhere. What you'll get at Jet2 is a company that owns all of it's aircraft, has a very successful business model and most of all has a good bunch of crews keen to help the airline succeed. Make your own choice.

Jet2

[10002level]

Jet2,

Good luck with the job: I am sure that the company will be a success. I would like to question the benefits of owning the aircraft though as this was something that easyJet started out doing and now virtually all aircraft are leased. If the company own the aircraft, there will still be financing involved somewhere down the line (secured on the aircraft), so I cannot see the benefit. If they were cheap to buy, it follows that they would also have been cheap to lease.

[spanner the cat]

I'd also say that jet2 might find MAN a different proposition to LBA as they are pretty much IT at Leeds (LBA - PRG on a J41, Hmmmm) .

There is far more competition at MAN and it seems that one route has already been canned (MAN - AMS) and it seems loads on the MAN - LGW haven't been sparkling; whilst the LGW route isn't quite esablished it also isn't entirely new. Jet2's advertising budget must be quite some thing as you can't move around the Greater Manchester area without seeing a hoarding or bus emblazoned with Jet2 adverts. Must cost a bit too.

Perhaps they should try BA's minimalist approach to advertising around Manchester and save some money; it seems to really work well (not).

[Have you heard this!]

. I'm also told that the loads are not what was expected (less then 30pax on some LGW sectors!) and rumour has it that thay have already pulled off AMS before even starting.........!

There is far more competition at MAN and it seems that one route has already been canned (MAN - AMS)

Your rumour is wrong about the AMS. It's actually doing really well and some flights going full. LGW loads are low but are picking up considering it's only been on sale for 2 months. Most of the other flight have quite high load factors and the forcast is good for the future too.

[unwiseowl]

"the forcast is good for the future too."

That's alright then!!!!!