Is this a joke??!!
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,658
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From: Up north
Is this a joke??!!
Reading on flightinternational.com today I found this job "F900 Captains (Rated on any Corporate Jet)"....I thought "Hmm...wonder where that is?"...clicked on to it and started reading.....(Well, to be honest I was looking for the part talking about salary 
).... Sure enough, there it was.... "Basic Monthly salary is US$3,000-US$4,000 Tax Free." For 
sake!!!
Is this for real?? Is this the "standard" for a corporate captain??!!
I just cannot see any Captain with some sort of experience taking a job like this!! Or? Am I wrong?? Are there that many experienced guys out there that they can get people for that kind of money??
).... Sure enough, there it was.... "Basic Monthly salary is US$3,000-US$4,000 Tax Free." For sake!!!Is this for real?? Is this the "standard" for a corporate captain??!!
I just cannot see any Captain with some sort of experience taking a job like this!! Or? Am I wrong?? Are there that many experienced guys out there that they can get people for that kind of money??
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 627
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From: Europe
There are Pilots out who work for $ 250 US as a Captain in a B747 and for $ 8.000 US fix in a month on a B744...... They are retired from Airlines with 55 years and they have a pension who covers the needs. There intention is to earn some "donation" for the toys. With the age limit raised to 63 in Europe that will give the "Low cost Pilots" another boost. Pension secured in the old days and now setting the goal lower on the contract front.
Look carefully into the package... if they pay you the car, the housing, the child education, a performance bonus, free health care and dental treatment, into a pension fund, (secured to You), then it is worth to look at it.
NG
Look carefully into the package... if they pay you the car, the housing, the child education, a performance bonus, free health care and dental treatment, into a pension fund, (secured to You), then it is worth to look at it.
NG
Whatever happens,.. happens!
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 360
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From: 19' N, 82' W
Surely any corporation planning to transport some of its most valuable human resources would expect to pay good money for a quality Pilot.
I may be out of it but I can't see any quality Pilot taking that Job for anything less then (US) 150 K a year plus the usual benefits such as expenses, uniforms, meals, phone etc.
If that is in fact more then the going rate, then all I can say is thank God I am nearing retirement (from flying) and I am glad that I have diversified my income sources over time.
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 4,507
Likes: 4
From: last time I looked I was still here.
Don't joke too much. There are B737NG captain's jobs being offerred, and I am told being accepted, at U$6000pm, accom' to be self funded. That is a laugh, but when airlines are going bust, and pilots are out of work, this is the price of capitalism.
I used to earn U$9000pm B767 12 years ago. What the hell is going on with us?????????
Make the calculation of what a fulltime captain costs the airline, local tax premiums included; then compare it with what they offer contract captains. no expenses etc. We are allowing ourselves to be ripped off something rotten. The rates I've be quoted for contracts in Asia & N. Africa are a joke, & I have refused. I hope others have done the same; but I understand that these regions are outside the EU and therefore open to US & eastern crews who might be on hardtimes. It is a sad demonstration of the exploitation of despairate crews by unscrupulous & greedy management.
I used to earn U$9000pm B767 12 years ago. What the hell is going on with us?????????
Make the calculation of what a fulltime captain costs the airline, local tax premiums included; then compare it with what they offer contract captains. no expenses etc. We are allowing ourselves to be ripped off something rotten. The rates I've be quoted for contracts in Asia & N. Africa are a joke, & I have refused. I hope others have done the same; but I understand that these regions are outside the EU and therefore open to US & eastern crews who might be on hardtimes. It is a sad demonstration of the exploitation of despairate crews by unscrupulous & greedy management.
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 339
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From: Eagan, MN
Well, I know a Falcon 900 Captain who, with 24 years with a company, took a 1/3 pay cut to go from 747-400 to the Falcon...to around $7000/month. The alternative was approaching bankruptcy...you make life choices as they are presented. No one can judge another's choices...ya does whatcha gots to do!
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 198
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From: NY
Markets and pay.
Listen up! The world is shrinking. How much do you think the Captain of the Pakistan Airlines 777 is paid per month? Yea! Not too much eh? How little will a Russian pilot (without a job) accept to fly for a third world airline? Not much eh?
The Bean Counters really don't care just as long as they have a qualified bum in all the crew seats that have to be filled. Do not think for one moment they care from whence they originate.
Why do you hear so many Antipodean voices on the radio of UK and European registered aircraft? Not because the Aussies love us or even like us it is because in the 80's they went on strike and completely screwed their own aviation industry so now they are willing to come here and work for low pay!
Ergo - salaries go down! Bean counters win and pilots keep on being poor!
Me? I don't care anymore because I am almost on my final approach!! But I shall think of y'all. . . . . like hell!
The Bean Counters really don't care just as long as they have a qualified bum in all the crew seats that have to be filled. Do not think for one moment they care from whence they originate.
Why do you hear so many Antipodean voices on the radio of UK and European registered aircraft? Not because the Aussies love us or even like us it is because in the 80's they went on strike and completely screwed their own aviation industry so now they are willing to come here and work for low pay!
Ergo - salaries go down! Bean counters win and pilots keep on being poor!
Me? I don't care anymore because I am almost on my final approach!! But I shall think of y'all. . . . . like hell!
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 120
Likes: 0
From: Sometimes even home...
You are correct!
There are quite a few qualified and experienced pilots from, for example, Indian subcontinent who are quite happy to work for 3000-5000 USD/month. Those deals don't really appeal to western guys anymore, but for them, I guess, it is a reasonable deal. Looking from my position, of course, that is a problem, though
But the deals are generally getting worse almost everywhere.
It is not like it used to be. In Europe and USA new guys are desperate to get that good first job in a proper jet and they'll do almost anything to get it. They agree on paying they own type rating (directly or indirectly) and they get paid under industry average. I guess that the logic behind of this is "Once I get started and experience in a good jet it WILL eventually get better" or something.
The problem is that it may never stop. These "under average" deals go all the way from Saab340s to A340s and B747s! Similar things happening also in the business/corporate aviation world. So, what you gonna do? Beats me
There are and I believe always will be also good deals remaining. However, comparing to the past, for a same amount of euros/dollars we need to work a lot longer days with less days off.
Unfortunately, that's just the way it is.
Anyhow, good luck for everyone!
There are quite a few qualified and experienced pilots from, for example, Indian subcontinent who are quite happy to work for 3000-5000 USD/month. Those deals don't really appeal to western guys anymore, but for them, I guess, it is a reasonable deal. Looking from my position, of course, that is a problem, though
But the deals are generally getting worse almost everywhere.
It is not like it used to be. In Europe and USA new guys are desperate to get that good first job in a proper jet and they'll do almost anything to get it. They agree on paying they own type rating (directly or indirectly) and they get paid under industry average. I guess that the logic behind of this is "Once I get started and experience in a good jet it WILL eventually get better" or something.
The problem is that it may never stop. These "under average" deals go all the way from Saab340s to A340s and B747s! Similar things happening also in the business/corporate aviation world. So, what you gonna do? Beats me
There are and I believe always will be also good deals remaining. However, comparing to the past, for a same amount of euros/dollars we need to work a lot longer days with less days off.
Unfortunately, that's just the way it is.
Anyhow, good luck for everyone!
Mach 3
Joined: Aug 1998
Posts: 624
Likes: 1
From: Stratosphere
The old paradigm has changed and things will only get worse as the centre of gravity of the industry shifts East.
These days, pilots will need a second job if they want to aspire to the life of their older compatriots.
Luckily the lifestyle often supports this.
These days, pilots will need a second job if they want to aspire to the life of their older compatriots.
Luckily the lifestyle often supports this.
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 307
Likes: 0
From: uk
You also get some 747-400 captains working for GSS for £60 grand a year.
They do however have the luxury of a BA pension of around £90000-£126000 pa so they don't care if they are prostituting themsleves and surpressing the natural supply and demand forces for 744 commanders.
NN
They do however have the luxury of a BA pension of around £90000-£126000 pa so they don't care if they are prostituting themsleves and surpressing the natural supply and demand forces for 744 commanders.
NN
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 6
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From: RSA
As far as i am concerned, it's scandalous how most of these airlines from the smallest to the biggest walk over crew.
A little comparison, take a GP for example. how much more do they spend on training than a commercial pilot. We can get our wings in one year of training and studying, they take up to 7.
They can mabye see 20 people in a day, we can carry way more than that depending on what size plane your on. If they don't know whats wrong, they can refer, we don't have that luxury. They sit in a nice office, we sit in a multi-million dollar airplane that we have worked our butts off to get there.
Lets face it, if it wasn't for us this world would still be very big.
I love my job, wouldn't give it up for anything. Just see red when the crew are walked over and over worked, so that the directors can drive around in a porsche!
it's time we stood up for ourselves and pray we're not cast aside and replaced by some snotty nosed brat willing to work for nothing!
A little comparison, take a GP for example. how much more do they spend on training than a commercial pilot. We can get our wings in one year of training and studying, they take up to 7.
They can mabye see 20 people in a day, we can carry way more than that depending on what size plane your on. If they don't know whats wrong, they can refer, we don't have that luxury. They sit in a nice office, we sit in a multi-million dollar airplane that we have worked our butts off to get there.
Lets face it, if it wasn't for us this world would still be very big.
I love my job, wouldn't give it up for anything. Just see red when the crew are walked over and over worked, so that the directors can drive around in a porsche!
it's time we stood up for ourselves and pray we're not cast aside and replaced by some snotty nosed brat willing to work for nothing!
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 79
Likes: 0
From: Germany
"we're not cast aside and replaced by some snotty nosed brat willing to work for nothing!"
Mabey if you have a loan for 40.000€ on the bank and the best you can get is an Islander for 1000€ a month because your young and low time...youl take it!
Well it may not please you but what can you do?????
Mabey if you have a loan for 40.000€ on the bank and the best you can get is an Islander for 1000€ a month because your young and low time...youl take it!
Well it may not please you but what can you do?????
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 722
Likes: 0
From: ישראל
Excuse me but if you are trying to "re-invent the wheel" by trying to eliminate the division between white & blue collar workers (excuse the analogy) then, with all due respect, I think you are wasting your time.
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 280
Likes: 0
From: Redistributing SLF
Two years ago, I made USD$158k/year. I took a job paying USD 7100/mo. six months ago.
Am I happy about it? Yes and no. I know I'm worth more but at what cost? Do I uproot my family and move to Dubai and into the Emirates DEC quagmire? Or worse, go there and hope to upgrade in seniority...eventually? No right to work in the EU or UK so DEC at Easy or Ryanair is out. I don't have the $7000 USD to pay for training at Southwest so I can take a $30k pay cut and take a few years to make it back.
Should I stand on principle...and on the street corner after having filed for bankruptcy?
I'm 46 and am typed in the G550 and 767. Anyone have any ideas other than what I'm doing now? (I'm working where I live and meeting expenses and should get a 12% raise in March.)
These are horrible times, there is no unity in aviation(the "haves" during the 90's laid the groundwork for that!) and we, alone, are responsible for that situation. No one who is doing well will jeapordize what they currently have to draw a line in the sand for those who are "have nots". Just my opinion.TC
Am I happy about it? Yes and no. I know I'm worth more but at what cost? Do I uproot my family and move to Dubai and into the Emirates DEC quagmire? Or worse, go there and hope to upgrade in seniority...eventually? No right to work in the EU or UK so DEC at Easy or Ryanair is out. I don't have the $7000 USD to pay for training at Southwest so I can take a $30k pay cut and take a few years to make it back.
Should I stand on principle...and on the street corner after having filed for bankruptcy?
I'm 46 and am typed in the G550 and 767. Anyone have any ideas other than what I'm doing now? (I'm working where I live and meeting expenses and should get a 12% raise in March.)
These are horrible times, there is no unity in aviation(the "haves" during the 90's laid the groundwork for that!) and we, alone, are responsible for that situation. No one who is doing well will jeapordize what they currently have to draw a line in the sand for those who are "have nots". Just my opinion.TC
