British Airways DEP Selection - THE lowdown Part 1
Join Date: Jul 2006
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bigdunc...
Not an easy question to answer as destinations differ in how expensive they are for a nighstop.
Stockholm/Upsala: IMO give the Irish bar a swerve and head for Costas Greek restaurant instead ... BTW beer at O'Connors or whatever its called is about 7 quid a pint
Nice - great little eateries down the back streets near the waterfront - cost for a pizza/salad and two beers = about 18 quid.
Went on a bender during the snow (Dec) in Geneva = got marooned for 5 days. At 2am fell into the Java Club under the Kempinsky Hotel, 2 vodka redbulls = 55 quid!!! Then had a coffee overlooking the lake the next morning = 7 quid!!! DO NOT EAT IN THE KEMPINSKY (except the free choccies on your pillow) THERE ARE GREAT EATERIES BEHIND THE HOTEL FOR 20 QUID.
Because of the bidding system different individuals like different destinations and some pilots have more fiscal responsibilities than others (kids or multiple wives). Some are DEPs, some straight from flightschool.
The montly 'BA HOST' amounts on my payslips since November (rounded) =
140, 100, 450 (Geneva, but generated a lot of overtime payments as I was already above cap for the month, OT = 46.5 hours at 45.12 per hour + allowances: 9 for flight pay, 2.87 for every hour away from base) 160, 200 = about 200 booners a month.
My situation = Dep into BA, paypoint 3, late twenties, live with my girlfriend, no kids - I like about 7ish nighstops a month as I hate motorway driving: Vienna, Prague (great meat restaurant 'The Gate Bar' [MAKE SURE THE HOTEL CLERK UNDERSTANDS THE PRONUNCIATION] 2 mins away - very nice dinner such as boned knuckle of pork, pickled veg, mini individual rye bread plus hot mustard + big beer = 8 quid + free farts all next day), Nice, Manchester (to see a Jet2 pal), Barcelona, Wasaw etc.
The skippers very much mould to your nightstop spending wishes. As you spend the day together a plan slowly forms of what you both fancy doing downroute, its pretty good.
Not an easy question to answer as destinations differ in how expensive they are for a nighstop.
Stockholm/Upsala: IMO give the Irish bar a swerve and head for Costas Greek restaurant instead ... BTW beer at O'Connors or whatever its called is about 7 quid a pint
Nice - great little eateries down the back streets near the waterfront - cost for a pizza/salad and two beers = about 18 quid.
Went on a bender during the snow (Dec) in Geneva = got marooned for 5 days. At 2am fell into the Java Club under the Kempinsky Hotel, 2 vodka redbulls = 55 quid!!! Then had a coffee overlooking the lake the next morning = 7 quid!!! DO NOT EAT IN THE KEMPINSKY (except the free choccies on your pillow) THERE ARE GREAT EATERIES BEHIND THE HOTEL FOR 20 QUID.
Because of the bidding system different individuals like different destinations and some pilots have more fiscal responsibilities than others (kids or multiple wives). Some are DEPs, some straight from flightschool.
The montly 'BA HOST' amounts on my payslips since November (rounded) =
140, 100, 450 (Geneva, but generated a lot of overtime payments as I was already above cap for the month, OT = 46.5 hours at 45.12 per hour + allowances: 9 for flight pay, 2.87 for every hour away from base) 160, 200 = about 200 booners a month.
My situation = Dep into BA, paypoint 3, late twenties, live with my girlfriend, no kids - I like about 7ish nighstops a month as I hate motorway driving: Vienna, Prague (great meat restaurant 'The Gate Bar' [MAKE SURE THE HOTEL CLERK UNDERSTANDS THE PRONUNCIATION] 2 mins away - very nice dinner such as boned knuckle of pork, pickled veg, mini individual rye bread plus hot mustard + big beer = 8 quid + free farts all next day), Nice, Manchester (to see a Jet2 pal), Barcelona, Wasaw etc.
The skippers very much mould to your nightstop spending wishes. As you spend the day together a plan slowly forms of what you both fancy doing downroute, its pretty good.
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explanation please CB!
Chief Brody, your calcs were pretty unintelligible to this rather dim 737 driver!
A few questions if I may?
Do you get an overnight allowance in excess of the flight pay and duty pay to cover your meals etc at your hotel? Or are you picking up the tab for your dinner?
Overtime - I thought you banked excess hours over your requirement to use for days off later - am I right in thinking that you can take cash for these instead, and if so, what are the monthly required hours that you have to exceed to be in to overtime?
Thanks in advance!
A few questions if I may?
Do you get an overnight allowance in excess of the flight pay and duty pay to cover your meals etc at your hotel? Or are you picking up the tab for your dinner?
Overtime - I thought you banked excess hours over your requirement to use for days off later - am I right in thinking that you can take cash for these instead, and if so, what are the monthly required hours that you have to exceed to be in to overtime?
Thanks in advance!
Do you get an overnight allowance in excess of the flight pay and duty pay to cover your meals etc at your hotel? Or are you picking up the tab for your dinner?
The answer to your overtime question is complicated.
You can only bank excessive hours from the the original rostered line or gained through trip swaps. Any other work you volunteer to work in excess of your roster is paid at varying rates depending on 'circumstances'.
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Bidding is done at 2 stages.
At stage 1 you bid for a selection of 'triplines' - ie those that you deem best suit your lifestyle. Note there are several software packages to assist you in refining the 'triplines' to suite eg weekends off, most money, fewest reports, day trips, nightstops etc etc - were a person not to utilise such software they would have to go through an A4 sized phonebook thick list of trips each month and look at each 'line of work'.
The more junior you are the more triplines you have to bid for in a hope of getting one (and indeed you might bid for 250 and not get one assuming 250 more senior pilots wanted them), however, the most senior guy/gal would in reality only have to bid for one as he/she would be assured that 'tripline'. So when you overhear someone on the crew bus say 'I usually get one in my top 5' this either means they relatively senior or pick obscure lines that one one else wants, one mans night Moscow is another mans Istanbul layover....
Ideally each of these triplines will be equal to or in excess of CAP (BAs required monthly hours, it changes each month but is generally about 88ish). If you get one in excess of CAP you bank the hours for use at a later date.
If after stage one you get a tripline that doesnt make CAP you will have to bid at stage 2 to top it up, or use banked hours from previous months, or be penalised by the company for each hour you are below CAP (meaning, say you were 2 hours below CAP, the company would subtract from your salary 2 x 'your hourly rate' [which itself is paypoint dependant]).
Now once you are actually undertaking the months work should unforseen things happen (like snow in December) the company will pay you for each hour you work above CAP (ie you get money not banked hours). The pay would be a minimum of 4.5 hours per day at your hourly rate.
Also you can pick work up in 'Open Time' (which is basically uncovered trips) and be paid at your hourly rate (assuming you are equal to or above CAP already - if not you will have to reach CAP first to trigger the hourly payments).
So when I said in my last post that I was marooned in Geneva for 5 days I got...
Overtime: 5 days x 4.5 hours per day = 22.5 hours x my hourly rate (about 45 quid) = £1012
+
Downroute allowances: 5 days x 24 hours per day = 120 hours x 2.87 per hour = £344
In addition to the Geneva fun 'n' games I did a little over 20 hours overtime/'Open Time' (I worked 3 wrap around days [another story]). This bulked my December additional hours up to 46 hours at £45/hour.
You refer to duty pay but BA call it time away from base pay (2.87 per hour) its there to cover meals etc down route and is applicable from 'swiping in' to 'release' so on a 5 day tour thats [5x24]x2.87
Flight pay (£9 per hour from brakes off to on) is for whatever you want to do with it. In reality, you turn up to a hotel, get 40 euros out, go eat and be merry, and when giving your room key back the next morning you can put back into your BA account any monies not spent or assuming your next stop uses the same currency use it there instead.
One closing remark. It all sounds weird but in truth you pick it all up over time by word of mouth, 'experts' on the line, friends and fingers burnt dabling in the dark art of Bidline Rules (BALPAS/BAs agreed contract).
At stage 1 you bid for a selection of 'triplines' - ie those that you deem best suit your lifestyle. Note there are several software packages to assist you in refining the 'triplines' to suite eg weekends off, most money, fewest reports, day trips, nightstops etc etc - were a person not to utilise such software they would have to go through an A4 sized phonebook thick list of trips each month and look at each 'line of work'.
The more junior you are the more triplines you have to bid for in a hope of getting one (and indeed you might bid for 250 and not get one assuming 250 more senior pilots wanted them), however, the most senior guy/gal would in reality only have to bid for one as he/she would be assured that 'tripline'. So when you overhear someone on the crew bus say 'I usually get one in my top 5' this either means they relatively senior or pick obscure lines that one one else wants, one mans night Moscow is another mans Istanbul layover....
Ideally each of these triplines will be equal to or in excess of CAP (BAs required monthly hours, it changes each month but is generally about 88ish). If you get one in excess of CAP you bank the hours for use at a later date.
If after stage one you get a tripline that doesnt make CAP you will have to bid at stage 2 to top it up, or use banked hours from previous months, or be penalised by the company for each hour you are below CAP (meaning, say you were 2 hours below CAP, the company would subtract from your salary 2 x 'your hourly rate' [which itself is paypoint dependant]).
Now once you are actually undertaking the months work should unforseen things happen (like snow in December) the company will pay you for each hour you work above CAP (ie you get money not banked hours). The pay would be a minimum of 4.5 hours per day at your hourly rate.
Also you can pick work up in 'Open Time' (which is basically uncovered trips) and be paid at your hourly rate (assuming you are equal to or above CAP already - if not you will have to reach CAP first to trigger the hourly payments).
So when I said in my last post that I was marooned in Geneva for 5 days I got...
Overtime: 5 days x 4.5 hours per day = 22.5 hours x my hourly rate (about 45 quid) = £1012
+
Downroute allowances: 5 days x 24 hours per day = 120 hours x 2.87 per hour = £344
In addition to the Geneva fun 'n' games I did a little over 20 hours overtime/'Open Time' (I worked 3 wrap around days [another story]). This bulked my December additional hours up to 46 hours at £45/hour.
You refer to duty pay but BA call it time away from base pay (2.87 per hour) its there to cover meals etc down route and is applicable from 'swiping in' to 'release' so on a 5 day tour thats [5x24]x2.87
Flight pay (£9 per hour from brakes off to on) is for whatever you want to do with it. In reality, you turn up to a hotel, get 40 euros out, go eat and be merry, and when giving your room key back the next morning you can put back into your BA account any monies not spent or assuming your next stop uses the same currency use it there instead.
One closing remark. It all sounds weird but in truth you pick it all up over time by word of mouth, 'experts' on the line, friends and fingers burnt dabling in the dark art of Bidline Rules (BALPAS/BAs agreed contract).
Last edited by Chief Brody; 7th Apr 2011 at 14:23.
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You see, your mistake, Chief, was going for the Vodka Red Bull. Having ended up in said Java bar (again) on the 23rd, you'll find the Carlsberg offers far greater volume for your hard-earned, coming in at just under £18 for an entire 330ml bottle. Good job we only stayed for 3...
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Found out yesterday that I have been successful through selection day 1. I'm over the moon right now 
Now, just wondering if anybody else has encountered the following issue of being told that there are "No slots available" when trying to book the sim? Will call BA on Monday but if there have been similar experiences then it would be great to hear what the outcome was.
Help much appreciated. Good luck to all
Now, just wondering if anybody else has encountered the following issue of being told that there are "No slots available" when trying to book the sim? Will call BA on Monday but if there have been similar experiences then it would be great to hear what the outcome was.
Help much appreciated. Good luck to all
Full Left Rudder:
How long have you got?
Putting it very very simply:
Everything a pilot does ( e.g. trips, Sims, ground training, leave) is assigned a work bananas amount, a.k.a. "credited hours ", which is not necessarily linked 1 to 1 with hours on the watch. For instance if you have Leave in a month it may have an Credited hours value of perhaps 15-20 credited hours, a days ground training might be 4 hours credited hours . The credited hours for a flying trip is usually, but not always, the sum of the flying hours, but there are clauses in the rules to give a minimum amount of credit per report, and also to provide protection if you end up with short sectors at either end of a very long layover.
Every month the schedulers work out the average amount of credited hours each pilot should do, the per capita, or "CAP", which is published at the start of the monthly bidding cycle. It's then down to the individual pilot to bid for work according, (or allow themselves to be rostered - Blindines), remembering that any leave, sims or ground training means they may have already have some credited hours that will count toward the monthly target of the CAP.
Next Week - the joys of banked hours, Nett Low Bidding and a module on Draft Assign
Would anyone by kind enough to explain what the CAP hours actually means
Putting it very very simply:
Everything a pilot does ( e.g. trips, Sims, ground training, leave) is assigned a work bananas amount, a.k.a. "credited hours ", which is not necessarily linked 1 to 1 with hours on the watch. For instance if you have Leave in a month it may have an Credited hours value of perhaps 15-20 credited hours, a days ground training might be 4 hours credited hours . The credited hours for a flying trip is usually, but not always, the sum of the flying hours, but there are clauses in the rules to give a minimum amount of credit per report, and also to provide protection if you end up with short sectors at either end of a very long layover.
Every month the schedulers work out the average amount of credited hours each pilot should do, the per capita, or "CAP", which is published at the start of the monthly bidding cycle. It's then down to the individual pilot to bid for work according, (or allow themselves to be rostered - Blindines), remembering that any leave, sims or ground training means they may have already have some credited hours that will count toward the monthly target of the CAP.
Next Week - the joys of banked hours, Nett Low Bidding and a module on Draft Assign
Last edited by wiggy; 10th Apr 2011 at 21:02. Reason: shuffling the litter tray