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British Airways DEP Selection - THE lowdown Part 1

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British Airways DEP Selection - THE lowdown Part 1

Old 8th Mar 2011, 09:49
  #1881 (permalink)  
 
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I'm guessing it's BA employees who've not completed x amount of time on the type they're currently on at BA?
Quite correct in that assumption.

Sounds very harsh, to let a DEP come in and take a job they might like for this. Timing is everything it seems.
Whilst it may seem quite harsh seniority is king in BA and someone who has to sit out their time on another fleet will still be ahead, in seniority terms, of a DEP onto the 744 when that person transfers across. Thus they will get better bidding rights, better lines and better trips even though they may be very new to the fleet.

There are big fleet changes in the wind at BA with the new aircraft slowly begining to factor in the bidding structure. I feel that the lack of internal candidates for the 744 (it went very, very junior in the RHS and quite junior, relatively, in the LHS) is those pilots waiting for the PRIAM bid to cantain the options for the 787 and the A380.

Always remember that waiting for a specific fleet can lose you hundreds of seniority positions within BA if you get in at the start or the end of the recruitment window. That has, in the past, transposed into years when coming up for command!
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Old 8th Mar 2011, 10:12
  #1882 (permalink)  
Fil
 
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As stated above, seniority is king in BA and should a DEP 744 slot be your goal do be aware that you'll be at the bottom for a VERY long time.

What I mean is, and some of the 2005 777-DEP's are finding this, you're joining a senior fleet with absolute bottom seniority meaning typically over time more senior short-haul co-pilots will be constantly bidding onto the 744 ahead of you. The current majority of new extrants serve 5 years (ish) on shorthaul before moving to longhaul but if you go longhaul from day 1 you'll be behind all those more senior copilots coming onto the 744 ahead of you from the last 5 years.

It's a warning but unlike being the SH fleets where you'll likely move upwards on your fleet seniority then move to LH, you'll be getting blindlnes (call that you'll be rostered with very little say) and will work a good number if not most weekends.

Don't get me wrong, you'll be in a great company flying a great aircraft with great guys....but you'll be junior for long time
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Old 8th Mar 2011, 12:42
  #1883 (permalink)  
 
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VJW:

Sounds very harsh, to let a DEP come in and take a job they might like for this. Timing is everything it seems.
It does sound harsh. In an ideal (BA pilot's ) world the 744 vacanices would have been filled by internal movement, probably by unfreezing bidders off the Airbus. However that means BA converting the Airbus pilot onto the 744 and training up the DEP onto the Airbus, i.e. 2 conversion courses. As I understand that would overstretch the training system, therefore the decision to do some recruiting direct onto the 744.

Bottom line is both Fil and Wibelsturm are spot on, senority in the company, aka Date of Joining counts for almost everything ( though I suspect some would like it otherwise ).
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Old 8th Mar 2011, 13:30
  #1884 (permalink)  
 
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Will these 747 DEPs be sourced from a new LH recruitment campaign, or from the remaining successful candidates of the current one?
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Old 8th Mar 2011, 13:39
  #1885 (permalink)  
 
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Well i guess must be people with a 744 rating, right?
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Old 8th Mar 2011, 13:57
  #1886 (permalink)  
 
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It wouldn't necessarily be 2 conversion courses if they used a current BA Bus/737 pilot onto the 74 and filled his place with a current Bus/737 rated pilot in the hold pool (or talent pool) - it would be 1 conversion course.

That said, if they recruit rated DEP's onto the 744 it would be less training but then again I suppose you could always say that and only ever fill vacancies from rated bods if possible.
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Old 8th Mar 2011, 14:17
  #1887 (permalink)  
 
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4star

My terminology may be at fault, "conversion" is probably the wrong word. Nevertheless BA is not going to release a A320 type rated DEP directly to the line without some form of training, (edited to add: The training is a handful of sims and line training, so yes, even a type rated DEP does tie up training resources).

As it has been explained to me recruiting DEPs directly to the 744, type rated or not, avoids some training on the A320 - and the 'bus trainers have already got a busy few months ahead of them.

Last edited by wiggy; 8th Mar 2011 at 21:08. Reason: clarification of contents of conversion course.
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Old 8th Mar 2011, 18:20
  #1888 (permalink)  
 
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On a related but seperate topic.

I would be interested to know how much line training is planned for the DEP's joining on the 737 and also for those converting from the NG to the classic what the ground school (technical) course involves?
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Old 9th Mar 2011, 06:43
  #1889 (permalink)  
 
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much line training is planned
The word from the training department is 'minimal'. Hence the reason they have specified type ratings as a requirement.
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Old 9th Mar 2011, 07:16
  #1890 (permalink)  
 
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I was told at my assessment that those joining already fly the aircraft they are going to, but there would be training of:

1 week groundschool
6 sim sessions
10 sectors of line training

In effect, a shortened conversion course from a full type rating. What I don't know is how long people who join with a type rating are frozen on the fleet for - is it the full five years?
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Old 9th Mar 2011, 08:06
  #1891 (permalink)  
 
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Initial type rating freeze upon joining the company is 5 years. I seem to remember that it then drops to 4 years per type after that but I'm not 100% sure.

However in the current climate and given the costs of training for replacement onto the current fleet of a pilot and conversion to the new fleet I would be fairly certain that fleet changes are being looked at carefully.

Enjoy.
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Old 9th Mar 2011, 08:08
  #1892 (permalink)  
 
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There has been no word regarding the changing of the engagement freeze. Irrespective of the type ratings held on joining I would doubt very much if the freeze would be reduced - though this is a personal opinion. BA would have to change it's procedures and the computer software that it uses for Postings and Promotions. This would be seen as an extra cost on the business and pleasing one or two pilots would not be justification enough to change things. Similarly I doubt that BALPA would be interested in championing a change as it could be seen as disadvantaging current BA pilots.

If I were a gambling man I would take a 737 slot. The leases on these aircraft are all due to run out over the next 3-4 years and they will have to be replaced - the jury is out on what will replace them, but this would represent an opportunity to move to a different type earlier, though again this is not guaranteed. The most important thing is to take the first course offered, seniority rules your life in BA, I was lucky enough to join before Sept 11 a friend that joined 5 months later than me is approx 260 places junior. Aircraft freezes can and are waived whenever BA needs to, things change dramatically in all airlines, do not expect things to be set in stone.
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Old 9th Mar 2011, 09:36
  #1893 (permalink)  
 
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Quick question folks, why did ba only want 500 hrs on type? There is loads of pilots out there with many more hours who would want in. What is the strategy behind this?
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Old 9th Mar 2011, 10:40
  #1894 (permalink)  
 
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The 500hrs was a minimum requirement.
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Old 9th Mar 2011, 11:36
  #1895 (permalink)  
 
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ZFT training requires a certain experience level dictated by the CAA and BA's ops manuals. I beleive 750 hours jet and 500 on type is so that you can do ZFT training.
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Old 9th Mar 2011, 15:34
  #1896 (permalink)  
 
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I understand that 500hrs was min but why do they not keep min hours 1500+ like other Airlines. What are ba gaining from keeping min hours at 500

Regards.
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Old 9th Mar 2011, 15:42
  #1897 (permalink)  
 
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500 hours is the only restriction mentioned in LASORS with respect to ZFT.

The requirement is for six landings to be completed,
including at least one full stop landing. In the case of
an application for a multi-pilot aeroplane; an applicant
who has logged more than 500 hours experience on
multi-pilot aeroplanes of similar size and performance,
this requirement may be reduced to a minimum of four
landings in the aircraft.
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Old 9th Mar 2011, 21:13
  #1898 (permalink)  
 
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I'd like to echo the comments made about seniority - it really is king in BA. Personally, I'd look at the long game and take the first start date offered to me, regardless of fleet.

If you do end up in the fortunate position of having the choice between longhaul and shorthaul then you need to have a serious think about how much weekends mean to you. At the bottom of any bidline fleet weekends will be hard to get off. The big (huge!) difference is that on the airbus you'll have people joining below you straight away, so life will start to slowly improve immediately.

On the Jumbo however, most training onto the fleet will be done internally so you can expect to spend 5 years with very little increase in seniority. That translates to working most weekends (bar the 10 or so you get with annual leave). If you can live with that then by all means go for it but you need to be realistic about the kind of lifestyle you can expect. Whatever you do, don't join on the Jumbo and then whinge about the seniority system and how you get no weekends off! That's a sure fire way to get on peoples nerves!

Last edited by BusDriverLHR; 10th Mar 2011 at 13:14.
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Old 9th Mar 2011, 22:45
  #1899 (permalink)  
 
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Anyone know what the experience/type rating requirements were when BA recruited directly onto the 777 a few years back?

Are they likely to be similar for entry onto the 747 ?
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Old 10th Mar 2011, 09:29
  #1900 (permalink)  
 
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When I went through the process in 2008 they had 2 sets of requirements, the first set was the same as this time "750 hours with 500 on type of 737/A320/757/767" or something similar. OR "full atpl 2000 hours with 1000 jet over ?? tonnes" or something like that. AFAIK for long haul in BA you must have a full unfrozen ATPL.
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