British Airways DEP Selection - THE lowdown Part 1
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Can I quote you on this Busdriver please.....just so people know what they are getting themselves into.
Please, know what you're joining
Whatever you do don't join on the Jumbo and then whinge about the seniority system and how you get no weekends off!
Last edited by Fil; 10th Mar 2011 at 12:58.
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On the contrary...
From my very low position on the 400....certainly no whinging from me or my similar seniority colleagues that I know of.
Infact very grateful for the lifestyle and flexibility it offers, certainly never had so much choice in what I do, compared with any other airline that I have flown in. I.e. actually having a say for starters!!!!. And this will only get better over time!!!
The flying is great, people are great, wish I'd joined earlier.!
Good luck to all
From my very low position on the 400....certainly no whinging from me or my similar seniority colleagues that I know of.
Infact very grateful for the lifestyle and flexibility it offers, certainly never had so much choice in what I do, compared with any other airline that I have flown in. I.e. actually having a say for starters!!!!. And this will only get better over time!!!
The flying is great, people are great, wish I'd joined earlier.!
Good luck to all
Join Date: Jul 2005
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Applications will open on Monday for the B744 and also extra A320 applicants needed. B737 expecting to keep in service until 2014/5. Like everything fluid to change but what was told on the assessment in the last few days.
Join Date: Mar 2011
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Does anyone know what the minimum requirements might be this time round? I have the 750 jet time but on an aircraft that’s 9.7 tonnes. (Just under the 10 tonnes that I’ve heard is needed in past requirements)
Really keen to work for BA!
Really keen to work for BA!
Join Date: Jun 2007
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Like a few people i've just been dealt the roster killer for my sim date and can't get it off! My date is the first week of April, if anyone has a date they cant make - please could you let me know. I have a week off toward the end lf March if it helps.
Please PM me of you can help.
Cheers
Please PM me of you can help.
Cheers
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BA Seniority
I take your point completely about Seniority in BA, but wonder why it is so important.
In most other areas of life, so folks have superior skills than others and are rewarded for them - Lewis Hamilton is a better driver than I am, for example.
So why is it that time served is more important than natural ability? Surely, BA could benefit from a system whereby "above average" FO's, as reported by Captains and annual training, are fast tracked, irrespective of their seniority. Just a thought.
Of more importance is this one. I guess many of the guys offered jobs in BA under the current recruitment process have frozen ATPL's - BA doesn't ask for a full license in their ads.
So if an applicant has an unfrozen ATPL, does he start at a different point in the Seniority list and is he paid the same as a fATPL candidate.
In most other areas of life, so folks have superior skills than others and are rewarded for them - Lewis Hamilton is a better driver than I am, for example.
So why is it that time served is more important than natural ability? Surely, BA could benefit from a system whereby "above average" FO's, as reported by Captains and annual training, are fast tracked, irrespective of their seniority. Just a thought.
Of more importance is this one. I guess many of the guys offered jobs in BA under the current recruitment process have frozen ATPL's - BA doesn't ask for a full license in their ads.
So if an applicant has an unfrozen ATPL, does he start at a different point in the Seniority list and is he paid the same as a fATPL candidate.
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Orvilles Dad,
To understand seniority at BA you have to understand the system. When you are recruited into BA you are recruited on the basis that you are capable of being a BA Captain. Therefore every First Officer is deemed to be entitled to a 'crack' at command training at an appropriate point. When you number is up you get to go and have a go whether you the best or not. Sure some people have been taken aside and it has been 'suggested' they might not want to bid for a command just yet. If you don't reach the required standard on your command training you will then have a choice whether you attempt it again or wait before trying again. The added pressure is that if you fail twice you will be CAT C'd which means not eligible to bid for another command.
So everyone gets a shot, and the actual command training is used to weed out those that are unsuitable which in theory are very few due to the fact that initial recruitment should attract a high caliber candidate. Once you dump this system in favour of merit based promotion the clear career path goes out the window and suspicions always arise that people are doing back room deals.
To understand seniority at BA you have to understand the system. When you are recruited into BA you are recruited on the basis that you are capable of being a BA Captain. Therefore every First Officer is deemed to be entitled to a 'crack' at command training at an appropriate point. When you number is up you get to go and have a go whether you the best or not. Sure some people have been taken aside and it has been 'suggested' they might not want to bid for a command just yet. If you don't reach the required standard on your command training you will then have a choice whether you attempt it again or wait before trying again. The added pressure is that if you fail twice you will be CAT C'd which means not eligible to bid for another command.
So everyone gets a shot, and the actual command training is used to weed out those that are unsuitable which in theory are very few due to the fact that initial recruitment should attract a high caliber candidate. Once you dump this system in favour of merit based promotion the clear career path goes out the window and suspicions always arise that people are doing back room deals.
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To explore this topic fully it really deserves a thread of it's own, to do it here will only dilute the benefit of this thread for those interested in joining BA.
In brief, the seniority system sounds archaic when you first hear about it but I have yet to hear anyone come up with an alternative that is (even nearly) as good. It has it's downsides but it is completely fair, transparent and safe. It was discussed here [ http://www.pprune.org/questions/4156...bad-thing.html ] a while ago, the flaws of the seniority system are acknowledged but the general consensus is that it is the best system.
The important thing is that you know BA has a seniority list and how that will affect you when you join.
All 737 training up to (but not including) line training is done at LHR. Accommodation isn't provided but there are some allowances that can be claimed to cover your extra milage (only if your home address is closer to LGW).
In brief, the seniority system sounds archaic when you first hear about it but I have yet to hear anyone come up with an alternative that is (even nearly) as good. It has it's downsides but it is completely fair, transparent and safe. It was discussed here [ http://www.pprune.org/questions/4156...bad-thing.html ] a while ago, the flaws of the seniority system are acknowledged but the general consensus is that it is the best system.
The important thing is that you know BA has a seniority list and how that will affect you when you join.
All 737 training up to (but not including) line training is done at LHR. Accommodation isn't provided but there are some allowances that can be claimed to cover your extra milage (only if your home address is closer to LGW).
Last edited by BusDriverLHR; 13th Mar 2011 at 06:43.
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If recruitment does start up again on monday (as posted by ask26). Were the requirements, type rated with 500 on type? or 500 jets? I have 2200 total 200 hrs bus (current type) and 1700 b737. Just to know whether I will get a look in, would love to apply this time around.
Couldonlyaffordafiver
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I have been told that my 73 course is at LGW, although I am guessing some of the stuff will have to be at LHR e.g. smoke, fire etc.
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I don't think accom is provided for new entrants to LGW when you are doing your LHR training. Just like LGW crews have to drive to LHR when doing their sims and SEP.
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The seniority system provides a 'fair' ish system with self regulation.
A meritocracy as described above leads to difficult situations with respect to who gets to decide who gets a crack at command and the increased income it brings. Is it the managers?, the trainers? the line Captains? In a company as large as BA it is guaranteed that you will fly with someone you don't 'gel' with whereas you may fly with someone you get on really well with but others don't regard so highly. Meritocracy leads to its own open can of worms which, unless rigourously policed, can lead to favouritism.
Overall the requirement to understand that when you join BA, irrespective of your previous employment, you will wait for your turn is imperitive. You can bid for early command if you wish for it and, in the past, it has happened with ex military guys and cadets getting commands within 3 years of joining. It all depends upon the current environment and timing.
Couple that with the fact that the FO scales (24 year increments upto £120,000+) are very competitive and the wait is not so onerous especially as the cockpit environment reflects the BA idea that all FO's are/should be considered Captains without the BA command course.
A meritocracy as described above leads to difficult situations with respect to who gets to decide who gets a crack at command and the increased income it brings. Is it the managers?, the trainers? the line Captains? In a company as large as BA it is guaranteed that you will fly with someone you don't 'gel' with whereas you may fly with someone you get on really well with but others don't regard so highly. Meritocracy leads to its own open can of worms which, unless rigourously policed, can lead to favouritism.
Overall the requirement to understand that when you join BA, irrespective of your previous employment, you will wait for your turn is imperitive. You can bid for early command if you wish for it and, in the past, it has happened with ex military guys and cadets getting commands within 3 years of joining. It all depends upon the current environment and timing.
Couple that with the fact that the FO scales (24 year increments upto £120,000+) are very competitive and the wait is not so onerous especially as the cockpit environment reflects the BA idea that all FO's are/should be considered Captains without the BA command course.
Last edited by Wirbelsturm; 13th Mar 2011 at 12:13.
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You are not entitled to free accommodation on your entry into the company. You are employed as a 'pilot officer' and your base will depend on the fleet you join. You do not 'join' your fleet's status list until you have passed your final line check, hence there is no requirement to accommodate you initially as you have no base. When you are based at LGW and have done your 5 year engagement freeze and decide to change fleet to say, the 747, you are then provided with accommodation as it counts as a base change. Accommodation is paid for by yourself and the cost reclaimed. If you are LGW based, you are allowed to claim excess mileage for your sim check and SEP. Pilots may claim for the excess mileage (home to Cranebank less home to Gatwick) This is calculated by flt ops admin.
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As long as you're not travelling during rush hour (you generally won't be during your conversion) it takes about 40 mins to get from LGW to Cranebank. It's really not that big a deal.
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I have heard that BA are planning to start recruiting SSP's at some point but are there any plans to include non-rated DEP's any time soon? Perhaps for the 744 as there can't be that many rated guys around?
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About training,
at what stage a new joiner start getting paid basic plus per diems? I am asking because i saw many non Londoner at the assessment, and i suppose it will be quite expensive to pay a hotel or BB at LHR for the training without a salary, and also, when is the base communicated? i suppose finding a place to stay right away from day one near your final-base is more cost effective than move twice.
just out of curiosity.
Where i am now i get paid 1.5 month hotel on joining, then i am on my own.
at what stage a new joiner start getting paid basic plus per diems? I am asking because i saw many non Londoner at the assessment, and i suppose it will be quite expensive to pay a hotel or BB at LHR for the training without a salary, and also, when is the base communicated? i suppose finding a place to stay right away from day one near your final-base is more cost effective than move twice.
just out of curiosity.
Where i am now i get paid 1.5 month hotel on joining, then i am on my own.
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If recruitment is starting up again tomorrow, surely it's for 744 rated people?
I can't imagine that they couldn't find enough suitable candidates from the 1600 that applied last time...
I can't imagine that they couldn't find enough suitable candidates from the 1600 that applied last time...
I have a handsome skipper friend in his mid forties with about 10,000 mini and world wide big bus hours.
Question is.
Does BA have an "unwritten" upper age limit for recruitment?
My friend is quite happy to sit in the RHS for 10+ years as he prefers lifestyle over wearing 4 stripes and can deal with the tricky questions about flying with younger Captains that the HR "experts
" have in their kit bag!
Question is.
Does BA have an "unwritten" upper age limit for recruitment?
My friend is quite happy to sit in the RHS for 10+ years as he prefers lifestyle over wearing 4 stripes and can deal with the tricky questions about flying with younger Captains that the HR "experts
" have in their kit bag!