Pilot = Idiot - Don't do it.
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Pilot = Idiot - Don't do it.
Hi all wannabees and doubters. It seems, leaving flag carriers and VIP operators out, that being a pilot and working on the terms that Ryanair and other LCC offers equals being an idiot. Dont say that some people HAVE to do it, or have no other option. You are a master of your OWN life, and you should not be treated like a slave. You really have to be a desperado for flight time to accept this way of life. It used to be a pretty good occupation, but now.... s***! I can't believe that people work like this!!! You really have to have abandoned your life and goals of a stable family and life to dedicate your time and career to being treated like that. Take the Ryanair case for new pilots (Brookfield) - and the trend in general for other LCC and "normal" airlines. No pay if you dont fly, no pension, no holiday, no nothing, not even food, transportation or hotels. Pilots are paid extra to sort this out them selves, leaving them sitting ducks for the IRS. Many issues here are not legal according to law, maybe even human rights law. Besides flying like h***, pilots have to be their own OP, arranging hotels and transportation. Still, the airlines say that flight safety is top priority. BS! This is insain. I can that a understand 22 year old wannabee's agree to this for a short period, but thats it. It seems that you can actually take more home in any job, than as a pilot. Take away the costs, time and efforts and see whats left. Not more than in any other job. Then there is all the loss of family time etc. Maybe even loss of a family. Many pilots end up divorced or never even get a wife or a family. Loners, by choice, but the truth is that their way of life can not even sucure a family! An easy way to get arround this is not to have dependants. Think about all the people you let down, not being able to be there when something happens. And if you think you are safe as a "normal" airline pilot - think again - Ryanair is comming to a base near you! Dont worry, you will be doing 100 hours a months at a rate of 65 soon, paying for EVERYTHING yourself soon. This job has no future, thats for sure.
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Thanks Ella, I know I am! Believe me, I know this branch. I don't think this only for wannabees, because its the truth for a lot of pilots today. They can also rethink their lives. As for me, I just applied for a new education, leaving 8000+ hours behind... MOL and the other exploiders and go and **** them selves. I will now enjoy life as a real person again.
Last edited by Jetdriver; 28th Jun 2004 at 22:24.
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visuals_rule,
Good on you old chap. Whoever said you have to be in the same job all your life anyway?
What are you going to study?
Too many pilots keep their eye off the ball and lose out on family life. It's definately not a rehearsal. Go for the second career and expand your horizons.
Best of luck
Good on you old chap. Whoever said you have to be in the same job all your life anyway?
What are you going to study?
Too many pilots keep their eye off the ball and lose out on family life. It's definately not a rehearsal. Go for the second career and expand your horizons.
Best of luck
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I fly for Ryanair . It is not the best Airline for sure but not as bad as some people try to convince me .
On average 90 hours per month with stable roster makes it 18 days flying . 12 days I am at home with my family having quality time .
About food - I would not eat any Airline food anyway . It is worse for your health than 900 hours .
Water - that is a shame . Another b...t of MOL . OK . I buy my water . At least I can buy something healthier .
On the bright side - flying , multinational culture , experience , visual approaches et c...
On average 90 hours per month with stable roster makes it 18 days flying . 12 days I am at home with my family having quality time .
About food - I would not eat any Airline food anyway . It is worse for your health than 900 hours .
Water - that is a shame . Another b...t of MOL . OK . I buy my water . At least I can buy something healthier .
On the bright side - flying , multinational culture , experience , visual approaches et c...
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simplyFO
Ryanair is a crock of sh1t. Most people admit that, except for the die hard idiots who can't see the truth.
The fact that you have twelve days at home... so what? Most pilots in BA,Monarch,TC, First Choice, Britannia,GB, BMED etc etc have that too. And they get water, food, transport, carparking, medicals paid, insurances and a bloody decent pension too.
Let's see how you feel at 65, with NO pension from Ryanair, and a grim retirement. If you aren't dead first through exhaustion.
I hate Ryanair for reducing our valued and respected job to nothing more than a dogsbody trade.
I hope Ryanair choke on their own faeces that we as a profession have had to eat from that gippo O'Leary's table for so long.
I actually would love to see Ryanair fail, but unfortunately I don't think you will.
Enjoy your water. You have just prostituted yourself.
Ryanair is a crock of sh1t. Most people admit that, except for the die hard idiots who can't see the truth.
The fact that you have twelve days at home... so what? Most pilots in BA,Monarch,TC, First Choice, Britannia,GB, BMED etc etc have that too. And they get water, food, transport, carparking, medicals paid, insurances and a bloody decent pension too.
Let's see how you feel at 65, with NO pension from Ryanair, and a grim retirement. If you aren't dead first through exhaustion.
I hate Ryanair for reducing our valued and respected job to nothing more than a dogsbody trade.
I hope Ryanair choke on their own faeces that we as a profession have had to eat from that gippo O'Leary's table for so long.
I actually would love to see Ryanair fail, but unfortunately I don't think you will.
Enjoy your water. You have just prostituted yourself.
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SimplyFO, I'm interested. Why do you think your job is so good? What time do you go to and come back from work each of those 18 days? Any of them very early starts or late finishes, by any chance? Those 12 days off- you feel you're fully rested and able to take full advantage of those days off? Or would sleep be a priority for many of them? Why do you think it is acceptable for your airline not to feed you, or supply you with drinking water, or even provide you with a pension?
Are those the kind of terms you would like to see throughout the industry? No ambitions to move on and up to a more enlightened employer? Wheelbarrow is right, your position smacks of prostitution - it is little better than those who would fly for free to get their hours up. In fact, did you pay for your interview, your sim check, your rating and your line training perchance? I think prostitution is perhaps a more honest profession!
Visual has a good point; these days, a 9-to-5 gives you more chance of seeing your family, getting decent time off, proper terms and conditions (backed by legislation), and seeing retirement as a fit, healthy person rather than as a wreck!
Are those the kind of terms you would like to see throughout the industry? No ambitions to move on and up to a more enlightened employer? Wheelbarrow is right, your position smacks of prostitution - it is little better than those who would fly for free to get their hours up. In fact, did you pay for your interview, your sim check, your rating and your line training perchance? I think prostitution is perhaps a more honest profession!
Visual has a good point; these days, a 9-to-5 gives you more chance of seeing your family, getting decent time off, proper terms and conditions (backed by legislation), and seeing retirement as a fit, healthy person rather than as a wreck!
Visual rules,
I take it if Pilot=Idiot the you=doing something else now?
Are you making more money? Less hours?
And I would assume that whatever you're doing doesn't involve writting claear English or knowing when to start a new paragragh...
I take it if Pilot=Idiot the you=doing something else now?
Are you making more money? Less hours?
And I would assume that whatever you're doing doesn't involve writting claear English or knowing when to start a new paragragh...
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Grass always greener on the other side?
Once upon a time I left a 9 to 5 job with a big company in order to fly for a living.
9 to 5 was sucking out my soul for different reasons than MOL may do it to you.
9 to 5 isn't everyone's cup of tea. But I made the change because I needed to. Maybe you need to make the change in the other direction because you need to - but beware, the grass may only appear to be greener!
Good luck to you.
M
9 to 5 was sucking out my soul for different reasons than MOL may do it to you.
9 to 5 isn't everyone's cup of tea. But I made the change because I needed to. Maybe you need to make the change in the other direction because you need to - but beware, the grass may only appear to be greener!
Good luck to you.
M
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Visuals-rule - instead of bleating about how bad things are why don't you get off your arse and find another flying job???? There are quite a few around actually if you'd only look.
Personally I wouldn't leave flying for ANYTHING else, well said Matron......
Personally I wouldn't leave flying for ANYTHING else, well said Matron......
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Steady on chaps.
SimplyFO was just expressing a personal viewpoint on the job that he/she currently has. Your opinion is that Ryanair is the devils own airline. Fair enough, plenty would agree with you. But don’t lay into someone for simply saying “my job is not *that* bad”.
Cheers,
HaM
SimplyFO was just expressing a personal viewpoint on the job that he/she currently has. Your opinion is that Ryanair is the devils own airline. Fair enough, plenty would agree with you. But don’t lay into someone for simply saying “my job is not *that* bad”.
Cheers,
HaM
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"Wizofoz"... Well its not really about me. Thanks for the concern anyway. This topic concers a LOT of pilots - And "White Knight"... Get off my arse and go where??? To the much better option like yours? ...or maybe go to easyJet or SkyEurope where I can really get good conditions and see my future lined up????
No guys, like some other people here, keep the bars centered.
Here is what I think it's all about...
We have reached a point now, where any aviation company that would offer pilots JUST A FRACTION of the working conditions that "normal" people have and take for granted - will INSTANTLY be a unique place to work and known accross the whole pilot community for its good conditions!!!!!!!!! Like if just ONE or a few of the following was garanteed: Max. 40 work hours a week (TOTALLY), Weekends off, have time with your family every day, sleep in your own bed, be member of a union, holidays, pension etc. All taken for granted if you are a teacher, secretary and almost any other title I can think of thats not related to aviation.
And about the pay, yes, it has traditionally been higher than for "normal" jobs, and still is in many airlines, but now.... Ryanairs 65 Euros pr. hour minus uniform and prof.check????? ofcourse with no holidays, pension or nothing - or maybe SkyEurope's soaring captain wages of around 2000 Euros??? Any hairdresser or taxidriver has better working conditions than that. Take your illusion serious guys, this is a joke.
No matter what your pay is, the pay is not worth anything if you dont have a life and a future - you are better off realizing that and take proper action.
No guys, like some other people here, keep the bars centered.
Here is what I think it's all about...
We have reached a point now, where any aviation company that would offer pilots JUST A FRACTION of the working conditions that "normal" people have and take for granted - will INSTANTLY be a unique place to work and known accross the whole pilot community for its good conditions!!!!!!!!! Like if just ONE or a few of the following was garanteed: Max. 40 work hours a week (TOTALLY), Weekends off, have time with your family every day, sleep in your own bed, be member of a union, holidays, pension etc. All taken for granted if you are a teacher, secretary and almost any other title I can think of thats not related to aviation.
And about the pay, yes, it has traditionally been higher than for "normal" jobs, and still is in many airlines, but now.... Ryanairs 65 Euros pr. hour minus uniform and prof.check????? ofcourse with no holidays, pension or nothing - or maybe SkyEurope's soaring captain wages of around 2000 Euros??? Any hairdresser or taxidriver has better working conditions than that. Take your illusion serious guys, this is a joke.
No matter what your pay is, the pay is not worth anything if you dont have a life and a future - you are better off realizing that and take proper action.
V-R,
My neighbour works in IT as a software salesman. Makes about the same as me.
He spends 3-4 nights a week in hotels, is often working or traveling till after midnight, and does lot's of work from home on week ends. As a shorthall LCC pilot I'm home every night. He envies the hours I work.
Anyone in a managerial position is expected to work until the works done. Lawers in big firms are expected to bill for around 65 hours/week.
They're the WELL paid ones in our society.
Ever driven down town on a weekend (you know, when ORDINARY people don't work), and noticed how all the shops are open? Been to a resturant or bar late at night? Think the assistants, waiters and bartenders paid a fraction of what you are wouldn't a)rather be with their families and b) kill for a job like yours? Ever driven to work early in the morning just as the road crew are packing up after working all night?
NOBODY is holding a gun to your or anybodies head. I fly because it's what I like to do, and I feel more than adequatley compensated for my efforts.
The day that's not true, I'll do something else... without ranting on PPRUNE about it.
My neighbour works in IT as a software salesman. Makes about the same as me.
He spends 3-4 nights a week in hotels, is often working or traveling till after midnight, and does lot's of work from home on week ends. As a shorthall LCC pilot I'm home every night. He envies the hours I work.
Anyone in a managerial position is expected to work until the works done. Lawers in big firms are expected to bill for around 65 hours/week.
They're the WELL paid ones in our society.
Ever driven down town on a weekend (you know, when ORDINARY people don't work), and noticed how all the shops are open? Been to a resturant or bar late at night? Think the assistants, waiters and bartenders paid a fraction of what you are wouldn't a)rather be with their families and b) kill for a job like yours? Ever driven to work early in the morning just as the road crew are packing up after working all night?
NOBODY is holding a gun to your or anybodies head. I fly because it's what I like to do, and I feel more than adequatley compensated for my efforts.
The day that's not true, I'll do something else... without ranting on PPRUNE about it.
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Well Wizofoz, you fell short of mentioning 99% of the jobtitles working a normal workpattern, and instead you mentioned people that work late hours in bars, or work in management positions, where we all know that you work until the job is done. The vast majority of the people you didnt mention work for an employer that has a decent approach to people, in term of conditions and pay.
I am glad for you that you feel rewarded for the work you do. That is in fact the problem generally. That there is always someone that feel "rewarded" to fly - no matter how shafted they really are. Flying is fun, and thats the problem - and as long as there is 22 year old hopefuls with a training account of minus 100K Euros, that feel "rewarded" to fly for less than 60 Euros an hour, this branch will always be ****.
I am glad for you that you feel rewarded for the work you do. That is in fact the problem generally. That there is always someone that feel "rewarded" to fly - no matter how shafted they really are. Flying is fun, and thats the problem - and as long as there is 22 year old hopefuls with a training account of minus 100K Euros, that feel "rewarded" to fly for less than 60 Euros an hour, this branch will always be ****.
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Dear Visuals_Rule
I read you topic with much interest, and I find that you are right.
Unfortunately, the profession it has been “invaded” by people with low esteem, and dreaming that they will make a lot of money quickly and on top of it travel around the world for free.
They are bloody dreamers.
Most unfortunately, they are not prepared for today’s life realities, as you explained quite well.
Some people will only understand that it is dangerous to play with a Shark, until they are bitten!
Like Simply FO, trying to justify that Ryanair is not so bad …
He is just “fishing” and trying to find somebody to support him on his speech…
I wish you success in your decision to quit, and most of all, peace of mind.
I just hoped to be younger to do the same.
Mercurius
I read you topic with much interest, and I find that you are right.
Unfortunately, the profession it has been “invaded” by people with low esteem, and dreaming that they will make a lot of money quickly and on top of it travel around the world for free.
They are bloody dreamers.
Most unfortunately, they are not prepared for today’s life realities, as you explained quite well.
Some people will only understand that it is dangerous to play with a Shark, until they are bitten!
Like Simply FO, trying to justify that Ryanair is not so bad …
He is just “fishing” and trying to find somebody to support him on his speech…
I wish you success in your decision to quit, and most of all, peace of mind.
I just hoped to be younger to do the same.
Mercurius
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You have to pay for water SimplyFO? Gee,but you have to drink water while flying to keep hidrated,I usually drink 1 l during 4 hr flight.How much will it cost me this 'luxury' on Ryanair?
I wonder what do you think about the safety of this LCC's flying with FO with no more than 200 TT,or captains with 800 TT and 300 hrs on type (737)? And rostering them the way they do.
I'd like to think we all have many talents,and flying is only one of them.So if you feel no more satisfied from this job (money,family,respect,etc) you can anyday try something different.The challenge will be welcome,I can assure you.
We should enjoy life,all there is.And if someone says that flying is all there is,I can only pitty him.
I put my familly first,and I have a lot of joy from it.
Brgds Alex
I wonder what do you think about the safety of this LCC's flying with FO with no more than 200 TT,or captains with 800 TT and 300 hrs on type (737)? And rostering them the way they do.
I'd like to think we all have many talents,and flying is only one of them.So if you feel no more satisfied from this job (money,family,respect,etc) you can anyday try something different.The challenge will be welcome,I can assure you.
We should enjoy life,all there is.And if someone says that flying is all there is,I can only pitty him.
I put my familly first,and I have a lot of joy from it.
Brgds Alex