BA recruiting - DIRECT ENTRY PILOT SCHEME
Join Date: Jul 2000
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As the retirement 'issue' is pertinent to the aspirations of anyone thinking of joining BA, it is probably fair to point out the following:
As I understand it, EU legislation will NOT mandate ANY retirement age at all! So the idea of a 5 year 'logjam' in career progression may prove rather optimistic!
There seem to be those that, due to greed, or a history of infidelity, seem determined to keep their snouts in the trough until their zimmer frame is no longer able to negotiate it's way into the flight deck bunk!
And my, how smug they are!
What do I hear for the oldest pilot in BA? 78...79...80? Older?
(I guess that may make the oldest co-pilot around 69 or 70!)
The very best of luck to anyone SERIOUSLY young enough to consider a 'career' with the World's Favourite!
As I understand it, EU legislation will NOT mandate ANY retirement age at all! So the idea of a 5 year 'logjam' in career progression may prove rather optimistic!
There seem to be those that, due to greed, or a history of infidelity, seem determined to keep their snouts in the trough until their zimmer frame is no longer able to negotiate it's way into the flight deck bunk!
And my, how smug they are!
What do I hear for the oldest pilot in BA? 78...79...80? Older?
(I guess that may make the oldest co-pilot around 69 or 70!)
The very best of luck to anyone SERIOUSLY young enough to consider a 'career' with the World's Favourite!
WhoopWhoopWhoops
No, still not correct about the top pay scales in BA, yet more editing required!
It does seem a trifle odd that previously you didn't know how many years it takes to get to the top LH pay point in BA and now you can't get the salary correct, even though you say you are on it.
Care to hazard yet another attempt?
Regards
Bellerophon
No, still not correct about the top pay scales in BA, yet more editing required!
It does seem a trifle odd that previously you didn't know how many years it takes to get to the top LH pay point in BA and now you can't get the salary correct, even though you say you are on it.
Care to hazard yet another attempt?
Regards
Bellerophon
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MAXI101
Regardless of what you read in the papers if you think a plumber earns £127000PA Plus £10 for every hour worked ( lets say £400 week or another £19200 PA ) Plus say another £5000 for incidentals ( well,why not ) or put another way if you know of any plumbers getting £155000 Plus and retiring at age 55 please post the names here. ------
I cant believe these sums are correct,BA honestly pays an Airbus pilot in excess of 100K to flog around europe,if it isnt going bust please show me why
Regardless of what you read in the papers if you think a plumber earns £127000PA Plus £10 for every hour worked ( lets say £400 week or another £19200 PA ) Plus say another £5000 for incidentals ( well,why not ) or put another way if you know of any plumbers getting £155000 Plus and retiring at age 55 please post the names here. ------
I cant believe these sums are correct,BA honestly pays an Airbus pilot in excess of 100K to flog around europe,if it isnt going bust please show me why
Join Date: Jun 2002
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Well if it is wrong we all voted for it and BALPA gave us the wrong numbers.
Certainly my end is about right perhaps you could enlighten us all on any major errors.
Or is it that you would like to keep the numbers in house.
My view is that possible future BA pilots should know all the facts.
BA will certainly gloss over the undesireable aspects of employment with BA.
I understand the latest company offer for a pay rise this year is 1
percent because we wont play ball on altering NAPS to make its benefits worse.
Backs to the wall again.
Certainly my end is about right perhaps you could enlighten us all on any major errors.
Or is it that you would like to keep the numbers in house.
My view is that possible future BA pilots should know all the facts.
BA will certainly gloss over the undesireable aspects of employment with BA.
I understand the latest company offer for a pay rise this year is 1
percent because we wont play ball on altering NAPS to make its benefits worse.
Backs to the wall again.
Last edited by WhoopWhoop Whoops; 7th May 2004 at 23:31.
WhoopWhoopWhoops
...Certainly my end is about right...
No, it isn't.
...perhaps you could enlighten us all on any major errors...
I already have, LH pp24, immediately obvious to anyone who is on it.
Take care with those FMS way-points.
Regards
Bellerophon
...Certainly my end is about right...
No, it isn't.
...perhaps you could enlighten us all on any major errors...
I already have, LH pp24, immediately obvious to anyone who is on it.
Take care with those FMS way-points.
Regards
Bellerophon
Join Date: Feb 2001
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Well that´s me Ah, but the plumber doesn´t take 20 odd yrs to get the chance to earn 120K. Give me a decent starting salary any day. It would be interesting to know the average salary of a crew nowadays. I would hazard a guess that it would be around PP15? Bearing in mind the cost of living in the SE (where we are based) the first 10 yrs payscales don´t seem a lot of money do they?
That coupled with the fact I´ve been quoted 750 quid for a new shower leads me to think I made the wrong career choice 15 yrs ago.
That coupled with the fact I´ve been quoted 750 quid for a new shower leads me to think I made the wrong career choice 15 yrs ago.
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MAXY101
My brothers a Plumber i ( In The SE ) and he makes about 50 - 60 K before tax and other expenses, thats for a 50 hour week ( including weekends ) and after 25 years of doing it,there may be a few plumbers earning higher but its not the average. either way its double what i will earn
Why does a pilot thats done 24 years get paid more than a new starter,do you become in some way BETTER or take on extra responsibility?
By the way my Brother has to fund his own pension as well and that doesnt pay out at 55.
As most of you guys afford huge flash houses, 750 quid sounds cheap for the type of shower you would need.
My brothers a Plumber i ( In The SE ) and he makes about 50 - 60 K before tax and other expenses, thats for a 50 hour week ( including weekends ) and after 25 years of doing it,there may be a few plumbers earning higher but its not the average. either way its double what i will earn
Why does a pilot thats done 24 years get paid more than a new starter,do you become in some way BETTER or take on extra responsibility?
By the way my Brother has to fund his own pension as well and that doesnt pay out at 55.
As most of you guys afford huge flash houses, 750 quid sounds cheap for the type of shower you would need.
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Well that s you
Simply .... yes.
BTW the variable pay is not per hour worked but per hour flown.
Why does a pilot thats done 24 years get paid more than a new starter,do you become in some way BETTER or take on extra responsibility?
BTW the variable pay is not per hour worked but per hour flown.
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Well thats me, I also "fund" my own pension to the tune of nearly 1000 quid a month. I also think 750 quid is a lot of money!
Without wishing to disparage your brother, is 60K what he earns or what he declares?
Without wishing to disparage your brother, is 60K what he earns or what he declares?
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
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I did say I'd keep out of this but I thought as a mod I should put 'www' out of his mysery and suggest you all stop teasing him, as he probably does not care a whiff about the detail of what he is earning
www - a 'typo' in line 3 row 2
- that's all - EOEE (unless it has changed since I quit BALPA)
www - a 'typo' in line 3 row 2
- that's all - EOEE (unless it has changed since I quit BALPA)
WhoopWhoopWhoops
...Are you sure you are not quoting pensionable not gross as in the table...
Yes.
...Anyway dont keep us in suspense what is your number for pp 24...
The same number that BALPA publish.
If you are who you imply you are, then you can either:
Greater attention to detail required!
Regards
Bellerophon
PS. OK, BOAC I'll stop now, it's getting boring!
...Are you sure you are not quoting pensionable not gross as in the table...
Yes.
...Anyway dont keep us in suspense what is your number for pp 24...
The same number that BALPA publish.
If you are who you imply you are, then you can either:
- Go the BALPA BA site and look it up, or
- Multiply your Total Regular Pay by twelve, or
- Ask any co-pilot.
Greater attention to detail required!
Regards
Bellerophon
PS. OK, BOAC I'll stop now, it's getting boring!
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Whoopwhoop Whoops
Since you seem so keen to advertise to the World how much you earn. (All information available - more accurately - elsewhere!)
And since you introduced the issue of people feeling unable to retire at 55, thereby stifling the aspirations of 'new joiners':
I dare you to reveal how much a crystallised pension is worth!
As you so quaintly put it:
Purely "to enable candidates to make an informed choice about BA."
Since you seem so keen to advertise to the World how much you earn. (All information available - more accurately - elsewhere!)
And since you introduced the issue of people feeling unable to retire at 55, thereby stifling the aspirations of 'new joiners':
I dare you to reveal how much a crystallised pension is worth!
As you so quaintly put it:
Purely "to enable candidates to make an informed choice about BA."
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The reason it is of interest to those for whom it would be "only a pipe dream," is because they may have to fly with people like you.
Their command will be delayed until you decide you can fit no more of the trough in your snout, and may reasonably ask, how it is you feel unable to survive on a pension, worth well in excess of £100,000 per year.
Perhaps that's why GSS manage to avoid paying market rate, since so many retirees seem unable to eak out a living.
As you say, for most, a pipe dream.
Their command will be delayed until you decide you can fit no more of the trough in your snout, and may reasonably ask, how it is you feel unable to survive on a pension, worth well in excess of £100,000 per year.
Perhaps that's why GSS manage to avoid paying market rate, since so many retirees seem unable to eak out a living.
As you say, for most, a pipe dream.
Last edited by Tandemrotor; 9th May 2004 at 10:33.
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MAXY101
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote
"Well thats me, I also "fund" my own pension to the tune of nearly 1000 quid a month. I also think 750 quid is a lot of money!
Without wishing to disparage your brother, is 60K what he earns or what he declares?"
He doesnt work in London and 60K is what he makes,its 60% more than i do at BA but then he always reminds me i have sickness pay and holiday pay plus a pension to remember.
As to £1000 a month for your pension,i would happily pay that ( but i couldnt even think of affording a figure like that ) for 2/3 your pension at age 60 let alone 55.
Regards £750 for a shower,it depends what it is so best i not comment
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote
"Well thats me, I also "fund" my own pension to the tune of nearly 1000 quid a month. I also think 750 quid is a lot of money!
Without wishing to disparage your brother, is 60K what he earns or what he declares?"
He doesnt work in London and 60K is what he makes,its 60% more than i do at BA but then he always reminds me i have sickness pay and holiday pay plus a pension to remember.
As to £1000 a month for your pension,i would happily pay that ( but i couldnt even think of affording a figure like that ) for 2/3 your pension at age 60 let alone 55.
Regards £750 for a shower,it depends what it is so best i not comment
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If you are looking at joining – then please be aware that hand solo’s post is very accurate.
I’m ex Navy and charter – and since joining BA ( short haul) I have flown with some really nice guys. My net income is higher (despite a seat change) and rosters are far more stable. We have enjoyed some great trips on staff travel and I rarely fly at night.
However –On reflection, I wouldn’t recommend it. In fact I enjoyed life more a few years ago when I was at previous employers.
Shorthaul BA at LHR (at least on the airbus fleet) is not an agreeable rewarding place to work.
Why not?
Well it’s a huge activity – you will rarely fly with the same Captain – and almost never with cabin crew you have met before. It’s difficult to form relationships or friendships with folks. Please believe me, there are some huge ego’s here. “One upmanship” is the name of the game. A lot of the Captains take pleasure in pointing out errors or omissions. The atmosphere on the flight deck is rarely pleasant. I’m afraid just too many of the guys are “spoon fed” from uni – sponsored and sadly now cynical about BA. They are frequently pompous, patronising and have an unrealistic view of their own abilities. Pilots here, can be rude to despatchers, colleagues and cabin crew in a way I haven’t witnessed elsewhere. They have no idea what it’s like to work for anyone other than BA. The relationship between pilots and crew is very poor compared to previous employers. (Though to be fair this may be as much to do with the locked door post 911 policy) .Cabin crew are well cared for by the company and fly half as much as you will! I recently completed a 3 day 10 sector trip whilst our Helsinki stopping cabin crew did just one sector out, standover dayin HEL, then one sector back! The inefficiencies at BA have to be seen to be believed.
The training dep’t encompasses some clever even brilliant guys who have masses of experience, knowledge and ability (along with the usual arrogant and narcissistic rogues!) – but somehow the actual training outcomes are poor.
The company line is that BA is best and we are head and shoulders above other operators. It’s simply not true. I’ve witnessed some really shabby events on line and I’m not impressed. Simple procedures such as refuelling and tech log entries are made so bloody complicated that 95% of the guys do it wrong. SOP’s change frequently and company publications are ambiguous and difficult to follow.
BA’s fuel policy – or rather the dogmatic interpretation of it, causes a lot of stress on line. As an example, you frequently burn 500kg just getting out of LHR during the taxy phase ( only 100 to 200kg allowed on flight plan) and BA sometimes allow only 8 mins contingency on the return sector!
In addition to this, LHR means traffic jams in and out of work, long stressful arrivals where radio frequencies are over congested and arrival separation is rarely more than the min 2.5 miles.
Commuting and “life costs” around LHR are higher than elsewhere in the world! A modest but decent family home with garaging and within a civilized neighbourhood where you can have confidence in the schools costs £600K.
To sum up; I’d say there is more to life than money. BA pays reasonably well – but perhaps it’s arguable that it’s not worth the hassle. You are unlikely to be totally happy at BA. Most flights will be with total strangers. The typical day starts with continual moaning. (despite my diatribe above – I try to be really positive at work!).Cabin crew unions and their participants do there best to spoil the commercial success and the micro – “day to day” running and good nature of the cabin crew. Many pilots are looking for part time so they can spend more time with their families.
You might be happier (albeit poorer) elsewhere!
I’m ex Navy and charter – and since joining BA ( short haul) I have flown with some really nice guys. My net income is higher (despite a seat change) and rosters are far more stable. We have enjoyed some great trips on staff travel and I rarely fly at night.
However –On reflection, I wouldn’t recommend it. In fact I enjoyed life more a few years ago when I was at previous employers.
Shorthaul BA at LHR (at least on the airbus fleet) is not an agreeable rewarding place to work.
Why not?
Well it’s a huge activity – you will rarely fly with the same Captain – and almost never with cabin crew you have met before. It’s difficult to form relationships or friendships with folks. Please believe me, there are some huge ego’s here. “One upmanship” is the name of the game. A lot of the Captains take pleasure in pointing out errors or omissions. The atmosphere on the flight deck is rarely pleasant. I’m afraid just too many of the guys are “spoon fed” from uni – sponsored and sadly now cynical about BA. They are frequently pompous, patronising and have an unrealistic view of their own abilities. Pilots here, can be rude to despatchers, colleagues and cabin crew in a way I haven’t witnessed elsewhere. They have no idea what it’s like to work for anyone other than BA. The relationship between pilots and crew is very poor compared to previous employers. (Though to be fair this may be as much to do with the locked door post 911 policy) .Cabin crew are well cared for by the company and fly half as much as you will! I recently completed a 3 day 10 sector trip whilst our Helsinki stopping cabin crew did just one sector out, standover dayin HEL, then one sector back! The inefficiencies at BA have to be seen to be believed.
The training dep’t encompasses some clever even brilliant guys who have masses of experience, knowledge and ability (along with the usual arrogant and narcissistic rogues!) – but somehow the actual training outcomes are poor.
The company line is that BA is best and we are head and shoulders above other operators. It’s simply not true. I’ve witnessed some really shabby events on line and I’m not impressed. Simple procedures such as refuelling and tech log entries are made so bloody complicated that 95% of the guys do it wrong. SOP’s change frequently and company publications are ambiguous and difficult to follow.
BA’s fuel policy – or rather the dogmatic interpretation of it, causes a lot of stress on line. As an example, you frequently burn 500kg just getting out of LHR during the taxy phase ( only 100 to 200kg allowed on flight plan) and BA sometimes allow only 8 mins contingency on the return sector!
In addition to this, LHR means traffic jams in and out of work, long stressful arrivals where radio frequencies are over congested and arrival separation is rarely more than the min 2.5 miles.
Commuting and “life costs” around LHR are higher than elsewhere in the world! A modest but decent family home with garaging and within a civilized neighbourhood where you can have confidence in the schools costs £600K.
To sum up; I’d say there is more to life than money. BA pays reasonably well – but perhaps it’s arguable that it’s not worth the hassle. You are unlikely to be totally happy at BA. Most flights will be with total strangers. The typical day starts with continual moaning. (despite my diatribe above – I try to be really positive at work!).Cabin crew unions and their participants do there best to spoil the commercial success and the micro – “day to day” running and good nature of the cabin crew. Many pilots are looking for part time so they can spend more time with their families.
You might be happier (albeit poorer) elsewhere!