BA recruiting - DIRECT ENTRY PILOT SCHEME
Join Date: Oct 1998
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I wish all those who want to join BA well. It’s not the company it used to be though. The work is getting harder and harder, and a relatively sizeable proportion of your duty time is spent faffing about, not flying aeroplanes.
Against that background we have a management that is determined to destroy the professional status of flight crew, and treat you like fork lift operators. We are in all likelihood about to go through a bloody and acrimonious dispute on the lines of Cathay Pacific – The Empire Strikes Back.
By all means be enthusiastic to join the World’s favourite, but please come in with your eyes open. You’ll need to think about your own circumstances, and whether you can afford to make your own independent pension provision. There is a very real chance that BA pilots will be on a par with Aviva bus drivers by the time they’ve finished with us.
Against that background we have a management that is determined to destroy the professional status of flight crew, and treat you like fork lift operators. We are in all likelihood about to go through a bloody and acrimonious dispute on the lines of Cathay Pacific – The Empire Strikes Back.
By all means be enthusiastic to join the World’s favourite, but please come in with your eyes open. You’ll need to think about your own circumstances, and whether you can afford to make your own independent pension provision. There is a very real chance that BA pilots will be on a par with Aviva bus drivers by the time they’ve finished with us.
Join Date: Mar 2004
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GUYS
QUOTE
"PP10 SFO 777 take home is around £4000 pm month for a full months work - around 86-92 hours. Obviously less for leave months as we have quite a lot of variable pay compared to other airlines although a lot less than it used to be"
By my Calculator again ( previous post ) this puts BA First officers on about 80K plus.
I wish you all the very best but if a F/O is getting 80K i hate to think what a Captain gets,and heres me thinking all you boy scouts did it for the love of flying!!
86 - 92 hours as well that means your getting close to Working a 23 hour week - i take it this is the part time thats being refered too?
QUOTE
"PP10 SFO 777 take home is around £4000 pm month for a full months work - around 86-92 hours. Obviously less for leave months as we have quite a lot of variable pay compared to other airlines although a lot less than it used to be"
By my Calculator again ( previous post ) this puts BA First officers on about 80K plus.
I wish you all the very best but if a F/O is getting 80K i hate to think what a Captain gets,and heres me thinking all you boy scouts did it for the love of flying!!
86 - 92 hours as well that means your getting close to Working a 23 hour week - i take it this is the part time thats being refered too?
Join Date: Apr 2000
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"Well thats me" - not a very educated post... obviously you spend the time at the desk. Oh well
Maximum number of flying hours in a year = 900 => 75 hours per month
Maximum number of flying hours in a month = 100
So by doing 80ish hours a month you will get close to 'maxing' out your annual hours. So 23 hours per week is full time. Also remember that these hours are block times, not duty times, which can be a big factor in shorthaul - you may spend hours between flights.
Most -400 and 777 pilots can expect to do 800-900 hours per year, and if one were to join the mighty airbus fleet you can expect to do around 750 hours per year. Mostly by day and frequently at weekends!
Maximum number of flying hours in a year = 900 => 75 hours per month
Maximum number of flying hours in a month = 100
So by doing 80ish hours a month you will get close to 'maxing' out your annual hours. So 23 hours per week is full time. Also remember that these hours are block times, not duty times, which can be a big factor in shorthaul - you may spend hours between flights.
Most -400 and 777 pilots can expect to do 800-900 hours per year, and if one were to join the mighty airbus fleet you can expect to do around 750 hours per year. Mostly by day and frequently at weekends!
Join Date: Jun 2001
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Pay attention at the the back of the class Well Thats Me,
Not a BA pilot but my roster on shorthaul has 80hr block flying time but 160hrs duty per month, so that's about a 40hr week then. Seeing as I work a shift pattern of 6 and 3 a busy week can see me working a 55 hour week!
Not a BA pilot but my roster on shorthaul has 80hr block flying time but 160hrs duty per month, so that's about a 40hr week then. Seeing as I work a shift pattern of 6 and 3 a busy week can see me working a 55 hour week!
Join Date: Mar 2004
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CS + Scottie
Conceded - My mistake but it was a partial windup,i knew the hours quoted were flying times.i just didnt know how that related to real hours reporting.
I was trying to make comment about posts - "The moneys not that good anymore " - i and lots more here consider 80K + for a F/O to be very good considering ( and i know you will correct me here ) a SFO position occurs by default after a set time - ie you just have to wait,and its all for a average working week.
BA went to great lengths last year to tell the world that the new pay deal arranged specifically for flight crew made the shorthaul crews the " HIGHEST PAID IN EUROPE ".
Conceded - My mistake but it was a partial windup,i knew the hours quoted were flying times.i just didnt know how that related to real hours reporting.
I was trying to make comment about posts - "The moneys not that good anymore " - i and lots more here consider 80K + for a F/O to be very good considering ( and i know you will correct me here ) a SFO position occurs by default after a set time - ie you just have to wait,and its all for a average working week.
BA went to great lengths last year to tell the world that the new pay deal arranged specifically for flight crew made the shorthaul crews the " HIGHEST PAID IN EUROPE ".
Join Date: Oct 1998
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BA went to great lengths last year to tell the world that the new pay deal arranged specifically for flight crew made the shorthaul crews the " HIGHEST PAID IN EUROPE ".
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: NCL
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Hello 111boy - to your question....
DEP's will initially be required as ZFT rated - this is to be trialled with pilot's 500hrs min. straight onto the Airbus fleet.
No type rating required.
If you're (or anyone else interested) see www.britishairwaysjobs.com/cc/pilots/index.jsp
Good luck!
It's not all doom and gloom..
DEP's will initially be required as ZFT rated - this is to be trialled with pilot's 500hrs min. straight onto the Airbus fleet.
No type rating required.
If you're (or anyone else interested) see www.britishairwaysjobs.com/cc/pilots/index.jsp
Good luck!
It's not all doom and gloom..
Join Date: Mar 2004
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Roobarb
I guess your right but at the end of the day you voted for it ( By Majority !! ) and it was a better deal than any other sections in BA.
" HIGHEST PAID IN EUROPE ". Is not something BA can boast about in engineering thats for sure!!!!
I guess your right but at the end of the day you voted for it ( By Majority !! ) and it was a better deal than any other sections in BA.
" HIGHEST PAID IN EUROPE ". Is not something BA can boast about in engineering thats for sure!!!!
Join Date: Nov 2003
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To the guys that answered my question on pay points - thanks.
To 'Well that's me' - yes 80K a year is good money, particularly in the right seat. I took home 4200 this month as a Captain at Easy and I have to say I am generally very happy with my lot (bring on 5 on 3 off though!!). But don't forget this profession is very difficult and very expensive to get in to, I carry a lot of responsibility so I don't feel I am overpaid having forked out 50K and lots of effort to get where I am today! Cheers.
To 'Well that's me' - yes 80K a year is good money, particularly in the right seat. I took home 4200 this month as a Captain at Easy and I have to say I am generally very happy with my lot (bring on 5 on 3 off though!!). But don't forget this profession is very difficult and very expensive to get in to, I carry a lot of responsibility so I don't feel I am overpaid having forked out 50K and lots of effort to get where I am today! Cheers.
Join Date: Mar 2004
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Mactom
Thanks for a honest reply.
BA is well paid for Pilots - when BA incorporated Cityflyer into it a couple of years back some of the City Captains doubled their wages ( The Licensed engineers took a pay cut but that's another story ).
I can and do understand the outlay for a CPL / ATPL and the constant worry of medical issues etc,all my comments were addressed at the BA pilots who seem to feel hard done by,lets be honest the American big carriers pay more but most are in the process of going bankrupt.
80 - 90 K for a F/O at age 40 looking towards a command and then retirement at 55 sounds good to me, and i leave the field open for anyone who disagrees.
PS Some of the Engineers i know have paid out well in excess of 10K of their own money for training / Exams etc ,i know this is not comparable to your own but when your getting paid 25K its a lot and never gets recovered.
Thanks for a honest reply.
BA is well paid for Pilots - when BA incorporated Cityflyer into it a couple of years back some of the City Captains doubled their wages ( The Licensed engineers took a pay cut but that's another story ).
I can and do understand the outlay for a CPL / ATPL and the constant worry of medical issues etc,all my comments were addressed at the BA pilots who seem to feel hard done by,lets be honest the American big carriers pay more but most are in the process of going bankrupt.
80 - 90 K for a F/O at age 40 looking towards a command and then retirement at 55 sounds good to me, and i leave the field open for anyone who disagrees.
PS Some of the Engineers i know have paid out well in excess of 10K of their own money for training / Exams etc ,i know this is not comparable to your own but when your getting paid 25K its a lot and never gets recovered.
Join Date: Mar 2004
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Boeing 7E7
Of course its not that but it certainly doesn't help,the point i was making is they cant Afford to pay their crews what they do anymore than BA they can afford Ivory towers and plastic spoon managers - you know what i mean,if you think of it there's no wonder the LCC have had such an effect.
Were it not for slot regulation etc the LCC would obliterate the longhaul market as well.
Of course its not that but it certainly doesn't help,the point i was making is they cant Afford to pay their crews what they do anymore than BA they can afford Ivory towers and plastic spoon managers - you know what i mean,if you think of it there's no wonder the LCC have had such an effect.
Were it not for slot regulation etc the LCC would obliterate the longhaul market as well.
Join Date: Sep 2001
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I am a DEP and now fly the 400 for BA having done my first four years on the 757/767. The money seems very good but I have to say moving with a family to the South East to work shorthaul was costly and only a move out of the area will free up some of my salary. I can commute now on the 400 but would have to return to the South East for a shorthaul command. DEP's tend to be older than cadets and there is definitely a cut off age where joining BA will mean that you will never really be senior in the right or left hand seat if you follow the normal career progression (shorthaul fo longhaul sfo shorthaul command longhaul command.) You will therefore always be working weekends bank holidays etc. Luckily I was under 30 when I joined and now on longhaul have reasonable choices for my roster. If I leave the south East I will give up the opportunity for a shorhaul command but will be quite senior on the 400 and will have a great lifestyle. I enjoy working for BA and was very pleased to have been selected. It is a huge company that looks after its pilots better than most other UK airlines. However as BA each year reduces the gap by chipping away the benefits the moral especially for those that have known nothing else is low. Small companies can have low pay and ordinary terms and conditions but can be great fun to work for my last one was. You know the engineers the ground staff and all the pilots. BA is more like being a contract pilot you go to work do your job have a good trip come home and never see that crew again. Do you want the money or the lifestyle. This is just a heads up for those who want to join I wouldn't stop anyone from applying but if you are over 33-35 you will never be senior and the above will apply. The only warning I would give to all new entrants is that the pension change for new joiners will mean that you would have to pay a large part of your pay into the new scheme to have anything like the pension conditions we now luckily enjoy. Balpa are trying to mitigate your loss but the support for new entrants from those already in the airline may be limited. Good luck to all those who apply I hope you find that the grass is greener here I did. 
Join Date: Oct 2002
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Thx JAZ for the info. Thats just the facts I have been looking for since this thread was started.
I am in a pretty good RH position on the -400 with my current company, but one cannot help looking around!
Having had a look at the BA webpage it is clearly stated that only pilots with a UK issued JAA license can apply. Does anyone here have an idea of how the procedure is these days for, say a Danish JAA-ATPL beeing validated in the UK?
Keep the shiny side up!
I am in a pretty good RH position on the -400 with my current company, but one cannot help looking around!
Having had a look at the BA webpage it is clearly stated that only pilots with a UK issued JAA license can apply. Does anyone here have an idea of how the procedure is these days for, say a Danish JAA-ATPL beeing validated in the UK?Keep the shiny side up!
Join Date: Mar 2004
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Most type rated pilots joining BA do a shorter conversion course, unless paired with someone changing types that requires the full course. Hence some DEP joiners do the full conversion course, and some a shorter course. Its still necessary to complete AWOPS/LPC and SOP training so a minimum of 4-5 details normally on the 320/777/744 fleets
As I said some get the full course...many don't. This changed about 4 years ago
Zak
As I said some get the full course...many don't. This changed about 4 years ago
Zak
Controversial, moi?
Could well be. When I joined in the late '80s I flew with 20+ year co-pilots. At that time there had been no expansion, no retirements and many BA sponsored pilots who were lucky to gain commands in their twenties who then sat in the LHS for the next 25 - 30 years!
I was lucky and gained command after 10 years because the aforementioned people have been retiring at a rate of knots for the past 5 or 6 years.
However now we have the cadets sponsored by BA in the early 90s gaining commands in their twenties............etc., etc.
Expansion (not anytime soon) could change that and people like myself who joined late will be retiring in the near future BUT 10 - 15 years might be realistic.
As someone who has worked for other airlines the pay and conditions in BA, despite the unbelievable whinging and moaning from those who have never known anything different, are both very good.
The pay, hotels, bidline, choice and quality of aircraft, staff travel, pension (for incumbents), and a few other less tangible benefits are second to none.
On the negative side we have so much internecine jealousy, especially between pilots and a notable proportion of cabin crew amongst others, that it is actually not the most pleasant of companies to work for in many respects.
When I joined I felt at last that I was secure but now the future is far less assured than many believe.
On balance there is nowhere I would rather be and I know which side my bread is buttered but with the continual erosion of terms and conditions, the latest being the loss of a final salary pension scheme for new joiners, the decision is far from clear cut. Especially for someone over 35 - 40 with some seniority elsewhere.
I was lucky and gained command after 10 years because the aforementioned people have been retiring at a rate of knots for the past 5 or 6 years.
However now we have the cadets sponsored by BA in the early 90s gaining commands in their twenties............etc., etc.
Expansion (not anytime soon) could change that and people like myself who joined late will be retiring in the near future BUT 10 - 15 years might be realistic.
As someone who has worked for other airlines the pay and conditions in BA, despite the unbelievable whinging and moaning from those who have never known anything different, are both very good.
The pay, hotels, bidline, choice and quality of aircraft, staff travel, pension (for incumbents), and a few other less tangible benefits are second to none.
On the negative side we have so much internecine jealousy, especially between pilots and a notable proportion of cabin crew amongst others, that it is actually not the most pleasant of companies to work for in many respects.
When I joined I felt at last that I was secure but now the future is far less assured than many believe.
On balance there is nowhere I would rather be and I know which side my bread is buttered but with the continual erosion of terms and conditions, the latest being the loss of a final salary pension scheme for new joiners, the decision is far from clear cut. Especially for someone over 35 - 40 with some seniority elsewhere.
Mistrust in Management
M.Mouse
I thought your post provided a well balanced and objective view of the situation in BA.
In the light of the new pension arrangements in place for all prospective employees, coupled with other factors (such as time to command) one would need to make sure that the prospective move was looked at very objectively.
You will work with some fantastic people in the air and on the ground.
Regards
Exeng
In the light of the new pension arrangements in place for all prospective employees, coupled with other factors (such as time to command) one would need to make sure that the prospective move was looked at very objectively.
You will work with some fantastic people in the air and on the ground.
Regards
Exeng
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gotta remember as well that in LH your monthly downroute expenses can add up especially on some of the longer trips. I reckon most people spend around £300 plus, which is a lot more than I spent when I was on SH.
ATB
ATB
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ONCECIMBER,
You should in theory be able to work in BA with an unrestricted JAA ATPL NOT necessarily issued by the UK CAA . The burning question is whether BA will hire pilots with licences issued by other JAA countries and not the UK. With the present flight ops management and specifically the man in charge ( PoD for those wondering who he is) I do not believe this will happen. I hope I am wrong and wish you luck.
Best regards
The Viking
You should in theory be able to work in BA with an unrestricted JAA ATPL NOT necessarily issued by the UK CAA . The burning question is whether BA will hire pilots with licences issued by other JAA countries and not the UK. With the present flight ops management and specifically the man in charge ( PoD for those wondering who he is) I do not believe this will happen. I hope I am wrong and wish you luck.
Best regards
The Viking