another 737 QRH question!
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another 737 QRH question!
in flight control section, what is the real difference between UNCOMMANDED RUDDER and UNCOMMANDED YAW OR ROLL? in flight at least i can't imagine one without the other. and the memory items only differ initially in turning the yaw damper switch off by memory or by checklist.
and why did they make WHEEL WELL FIRE no longer a memory item?
and why did they make WHEEL WELL FIRE no longer a memory item?
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wanted to keep this near the top until smurf or mutt get to it.
these are not trick questions.
just wanted to know other's thoughts about the subject.
also included would be the engine tailpipe fire checklist. would not an aborted engine start checklist do the same? or engine fire checklist?
the little bit about notifying tower and flight attendents should be in the aborted engine start possibly.
these new additions to checklists appear to be lawyer induced protections to Boeing(perhaps in response to certain isolated incidents) while giving pilots more checklists to get twisted between.
and look at the engine overtemperature during takeoff or inflight checklist and compare it to engine limit/surge stall.
why so many checklists that really do the same thing?
and are these items being added to all B737-300/400 QRH's or just the one i read?
these are not trick questions.
just wanted to know other's thoughts about the subject.
also included would be the engine tailpipe fire checklist. would not an aborted engine start checklist do the same? or engine fire checklist?
the little bit about notifying tower and flight attendents should be in the aborted engine start possibly.
these new additions to checklists appear to be lawyer induced protections to Boeing(perhaps in response to certain isolated incidents) while giving pilots more checklists to get twisted between.
and look at the engine overtemperature during takeoff or inflight checklist and compare it to engine limit/surge stall.
why so many checklists that really do the same thing?
and are these items being added to all B737-300/400 QRH's or just the one i read?
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Hi Stator vane,
I was asking the myself the same questions when the update came. Apparently the rudder/ uncommanded issue is indeed a lawsuit kind of thing because of the 737 rudder problems.
The tailpipe fire c/l prevents you from using the fire bottles, saving a lot of money and time. After a tailpipe fire, almost always because of residue fuel on the exhaust pipe, only a check by an engineer is required before a new start attempt.
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Track
I was asking the myself the same questions when the update came. Apparently the rudder/ uncommanded issue is indeed a lawsuit kind of thing because of the 737 rudder problems.
The tailpipe fire c/l prevents you from using the fire bottles, saving a lot of money and time. After a tailpipe fire, almost always because of residue fuel on the exhaust pipe, only a check by an engineer is required before a new start attempt.
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Track
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track,
thanks for the reply,
on the other hand, even the engine fire checklist does not require the fire bottle if the engine fire switch is not illuminated after shutdown.
and from reading and thinking about the possibilities of the tailpipe fire occurring, the aborted engine start would do the same thing.
maybe the landing gear speeds were too difficult for someone at Boeing to remember.
thanks again.
thanks for the reply,
on the other hand, even the engine fire checklist does not require the fire bottle if the engine fire switch is not illuminated after shutdown.
and from reading and thinking about the possibilities of the tailpipe fire occurring, the aborted engine start would do the same thing.
maybe the landing gear speeds were too difficult for someone at Boeing to remember.
thanks again.
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Stator Vane,
Read the conditional statement at the beginning of the drill very carefully.
You need to do this because the QRH is so badly written. However, doing this will lead you to the correct drill.
Read the conditional statement at the beginning of the drill very carefully.
You need to do this because the QRH is so badly written. However, doing this will lead you to the correct drill.
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Great news, SV!
So you know that if the aircraft yaws of its own accord, without the rudder pedals moving, you'll do one drill, and if the pedals move without your input, you'll do the other.
Also, remember that the 'engine fire' drill is not an engine fire drill, but an 'engine fire, severe damage, or separation' drill. If the engine falls off the wing, what's the point in firing the bottle?
Maybe most important is to ask, how many of your colleagues are still unaware, and what are your trainers and checkers doing about it?
I think that we agree that the Boeing manuals are, in every respect, of the lowest quality, but they are all we have got, so it's important to get to grips with them......
I don't for one moment suppose anyone from Boeing would care to come in on this thread for a proper analysis of the 737 paperwork...?
So you know that if the aircraft yaws of its own accord, without the rudder pedals moving, you'll do one drill, and if the pedals move without your input, you'll do the other.
Also, remember that the 'engine fire' drill is not an engine fire drill, but an 'engine fire, severe damage, or separation' drill. If the engine falls off the wing, what's the point in firing the bottle?
Maybe most important is to ask, how many of your colleagues are still unaware, and what are your trainers and checkers doing about it?
I think that we agree that the Boeing manuals are, in every respect, of the lowest quality, but they are all we have got, so it's important to get to grips with them......
I don't for one moment suppose anyone from Boeing would care to come in on this thread for a proper analysis of the 737 paperwork...?
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Northern sky...Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong,but,Doesn't the..."ENG FIRE SEV DAMAGE..."check only direct a crew to fire a bottle..."If the engine fire warning switch or ENG OVERHEAT light remains illuminated"...RTFQ...Would a loop still present an alert after the engine had parted...I think not...TR3... 
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Yes, that is my point.
If the light is on, fire the bottle. If it's not, don't! (And don't worry about why it isn't either, not until the cold beer is on its way down).
Whilst this checklist is the only one we've got, we have to use it correctly!
Of course, if you were in doubt about a fire of some sort being present, you could elect to fire the bottle anyway - but if the engine is gone, where will the extinguishant go? (Smug :-))
If the light is on, fire the bottle. If it's not, don't! (And don't worry about why it isn't either, not until the cold beer is on its way down).
Whilst this checklist is the only one we've got, we have to use it correctly!
Of course, if you were in doubt about a fire of some sort being present, you could elect to fire the bottle anyway - but if the engine is gone, where will the extinguishant go? (Smug :-))
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i must have mis-typed something along the way!
when i read the fine print, in the engine fire, severe taxation damage, or divorce and separation cheekylist,
my version includes "and/or abnormal engine indications has occured"
you do the list of items and if the fire switch is still illuminated-fire the bottle.
the engine limit/surge/stall also has quote, "engine RPM or EGT indications are abnormal, approaching or exceeding limits"
the engine overtemperature during takeoff or inflight-which would only exclude taxing or parking, says quote
"EGT has exceeded limits" which to my poor mind seems to fit with the other abnormal indications, approaching or exceeding.
and as to the rudder, which ever checklist you do, the only difference is the yaw damper is by memory or not.
maybe i am not expressing myself clearly to the thread readers.
seems to be some over kill in the checklists.
and you put the real situation in flight after a long day or night and you have the makings for a wrong checklist, but at least due to Boeings overlapping, if you say the word "rudder", you will eventually get to the right checklist, or say the word "engine" you will find your way to the end of the tunnel.
still better than an airbus!!!
so thanks to all your responses, i may have discovered my own answer-duplicate the checklists so that ANY pilot will eventually get the key switches off before he and all his passengers bite the greasy bag.
[ 03 September 2001: Message edited by: stator vane ]
[ 03 September 2001: Message edited by: stator vane ]
when i read the fine print, in the engine fire, severe taxation damage, or divorce and separation cheekylist,
my version includes "and/or abnormal engine indications has occured"
you do the list of items and if the fire switch is still illuminated-fire the bottle.
the engine limit/surge/stall also has quote, "engine RPM or EGT indications are abnormal, approaching or exceeding limits"
the engine overtemperature during takeoff or inflight-which would only exclude taxing or parking, says quote
"EGT has exceeded limits" which to my poor mind seems to fit with the other abnormal indications, approaching or exceeding.
and as to the rudder, which ever checklist you do, the only difference is the yaw damper is by memory or not.
maybe i am not expressing myself clearly to the thread readers.
seems to be some over kill in the checklists.
and you put the real situation in flight after a long day or night and you have the makings for a wrong checklist, but at least due to Boeings overlapping, if you say the word "rudder", you will eventually get to the right checklist, or say the word "engine" you will find your way to the end of the tunnel.
still better than an airbus!!!
so thanks to all your responses, i may have discovered my own answer-duplicate the checklists so that ANY pilot will eventually get the key switches off before he and all his passengers bite the greasy bag.
[ 03 September 2001: Message edited by: stator vane ]
[ 03 September 2001: Message edited by: stator vane ]
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SV,
I like your style!
I'll remember to call for that 'cheekylist' when I need it.
As for the 'bus vs. the Boeing.......
....light the blue touchpaper if you like, but it won't be an easy kill!
Bottom line: OVHT or OVHD? At 130Kts on a wet runway, the question won't arise in a 'bus.
I like your style!
I'll remember to call for that 'cheekylist' when I need it.
As for the 'bus vs. the Boeing.......
....light the blue touchpaper if you like, but it won't be an easy kill!
Bottom line: OVHT or OVHD? At 130Kts on a wet runway, the question won't arise in a 'bus.
