STS-107, Chronicle Of A Disaster Foretold?
PickyP
I have also had a play with this image. I traced the outline of the right (intact looking) wing, and flipped the outline onto the left (damaged looking) wing.
Then I wondered why it looks asymmetric - now could that be because this photo was taken when Columbia was making the left turn - at that point it was rolled 57' left, hence left wing down.
This does 2 things - it makes the fin (and any associated plasma trail) visible to the camera - which I believe is the trailing edge artefact, and may also make visible any plasma / hot flow above the wing to some extent.
Anyone know if there is a significant (ie visible) 'cloud' of plasma or material above the wing in normal re-entry ?
The orange line is a symmetrical outline of the right wing (for reference).
Anyone got an opinion ?
I have also had a play with this image. I traced the outline of the right (intact looking) wing, and flipped the outline onto the left (damaged looking) wing.
Then I wondered why it looks asymmetric - now could that be because this photo was taken when Columbia was making the left turn - at that point it was rolled 57' left, hence left wing down.
This does 2 things - it makes the fin (and any associated plasma trail) visible to the camera - which I believe is the trailing edge artefact, and may also make visible any plasma / hot flow above the wing to some extent.
Anyone know if there is a significant (ie visible) 'cloud' of plasma or material above the wing in normal re-entry ?
The orange line is a symmetrical outline of the right wing (for reference).
Anyone got an opinion ?
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An Answer to Picky P's Question??
Picky Perkins
Re the question you asked in your 09 Feb post:
"I think I see something projecting forward of the leading edge of the left wing in the flipped image. What do other people see?"
"Anybody have any relevant information or opinions?"
You may find the answer here at this link (as supported by various emerging facts and the Pate-Cornell/Fishbeck 1994 Paper)
I do NOT think that it was anything to do with a "not quite overhead shot" or a banked attitude. In fact the damage discussed in the link may have propagated ALONG the LH leading edge by the time this shot was taken (60 secs prior to break-up)
TheShadow
Re the question you asked in your 09 Feb post:
"I think I see something projecting forward of the leading edge of the left wing in the flipped image. What do other people see?"
"Anybody have any relevant information or opinions?"
You may find the answer here at this link (as supported by various emerging facts and the Pate-Cornell/Fishbeck 1994 Paper)
I do NOT think that it was anything to do with a "not quite overhead shot" or a banked attitude. In fact the damage discussed in the link may have propagated ALONG the LH leading edge by the time this shot was taken (60 secs prior to break-up)
TheShadow
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I looked at the re-entry image of STS-96 which was linked to by atakacs.
It is remarkably symmetrical compared with the one image available for STS-107 Columbia, and has almost no trailing material.
It is remarkably symmetrical compared with the one image available for STS-107 Columbia, and has almost no trailing material.
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sir,
In your image, with the centre line, the Shuttle looks asymetric from the tip of the nose to the end of the fuselage. That indicates to me that the shuttle was one wing high at the time.
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Smackdown of the Shuttle Program written in 1980!
Little did the author know he was being an optimist.
Regards.
Little did the author know he was being an optimist.
Regards.
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atakacs
---------
This diagram from the same web site you linked to has the same illustration but also has some words with it which seem to make a lot of sense out of what we have been hearing about the ablation pattern and the sequence in which the sensors failed.
--- Quote from words on the diagram ----
... Wiring diagram shown is for the left wing. Scanners attached to the orange lines failed first, and six sensors on the main gear failed last.
----- End of quote -----------------------------
The orange wires take a 90ş bend directly behind the leading edge of the wing where the sweep-back angle changes, shown in the NASA photo below of Columbia on the pad before launch of STS-107.
Of course, we should also remember the NASA warnings against jumping to conclusions which may turn out later to be wrong.
---------
This diagram from the same web site you linked to has the same illustration but also has some words with it which seem to make a lot of sense out of what we have been hearing about the ablation pattern and the sequence in which the sensors failed.
--- Quote from words on the diagram ----
... Wiring diagram shown is for the left wing. Scanners attached to the orange lines failed first, and six sensors on the main gear failed last.
----- End of quote -----------------------------
The orange wires take a 90ş bend directly behind the leading edge of the wing where the sweep-back angle changes, shown in the NASA photo below of Columbia on the pad before launch of STS-107.
Of course, we should also remember the NASA warnings against jumping to conclusions which may turn out later to be wrong.
Last edited by PickyPerkins; 12th Feb 2003 at 02:53.
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One of the press releases covering the sequence of events says something like.... the onboard systems fired the thrusters when the elevons were unable to correct for the asymetric drag.
Out of interest, have the thrusters ever been fired before during this phase of flight or is this just a sign of how bad the situation really was?
Out of interest, have the thrusters ever been fired before during this phase of flight or is this just a sign of how bad the situation really was?
Some very interresting picts here:
http://www.eclipsetours.com/sat/index
The net is an amazing place...
--alex
http://www.eclipsetours.com/sat/index
The net is an amazing place...
--alex
Last edited by atakacs; 16th Feb 2003 at 17:06.
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Engineering?
CNN this morning showed exerpts from a NASA engineering memorandum suggesting that there would be a problem if the shuttle undercarriage didn't deploy when needed. In contained phrases like "Totally screwed up" and "World of hurt". Are these NASA engineering terms? Most engineering memoranda I have seen are a bit more technical. Are these the terms NASA engineers think in?
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It was an internal email apparently hence the informal language, see this story: Email warned of catastrophic failure.
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Regrettably, it now seems that the lo-res picture that has triggered so much debate in recent days really is all they took at Kirtland on that fateful morning - with a 3˝" telescope and an "old" computer . . "in their free-time." Evidently, the precision elements of Starfire were not employed nor, indeed, requested. No comment.
Just to consolidate some of the plethora of references on this thread (please note download size before clicking!) here are links to the pdf (Acrobat) docs referred to - the big ones are for seriously interested folks only! (Shift+Left Click to view in a separate window) :
The emails mentioned by rehkram can be found here (192kb).
The original Paté-Cornell/Fishbeck paper - 1990 (4.8mb).
The later Paté-Cornell/Fishbeck paper - 1994 (2.9mb).
Ms Paté-Cornell has been reported as saying that she agrees with Ron Dittemore's remark about a "missing link" at an earlier briefing following the accident. It is also now being suggested that one sensor indicated "improper" left gear deployment, just before breakup, although two other sensors did not. Gear extension at that speed, if so, would undoubtedly be catastrophic and does not, in my personal opinion only, explain the progressive drag increase observed prior to the main event.
Below is a diagram of the left wing structure, which I hope helps to visualise the layout and what it all looks like under the Thermal Protection System (TPS). Note the short distance between the LE and the wheel well, around the point where the wing-sweep changes.
Enlargement .
This is taken from the earlier Ko-Fields Report Oct 1987 (1.3mb)
I remain inclined to believe that there may have been (also) a RCC LE panel contributing to the scenario. This would indeed be a formidable missing link. Picky's link of Columbia's LE (Page 10) clearly shows the grey RCC panels for those unfamiliar with the subject. Likewise, the video appears to show two separate pieces of debris falll from the ET at the 81-sec point during launch ---- two bits = two possible damage sites.
Just to consolidate some of the plethora of references on this thread (please note download size before clicking!) here are links to the pdf (Acrobat) docs referred to - the big ones are for seriously interested folks only! (Shift+Left Click to view in a separate window) :
The emails mentioned by rehkram can be found here (192kb).
The original Paté-Cornell/Fishbeck paper - 1990 (4.8mb).
The later Paté-Cornell/Fishbeck paper - 1994 (2.9mb).
Ms Paté-Cornell has been reported as saying that she agrees with Ron Dittemore's remark about a "missing link" at an earlier briefing following the accident. It is also now being suggested that one sensor indicated "improper" left gear deployment, just before breakup, although two other sensors did not. Gear extension at that speed, if so, would undoubtedly be catastrophic and does not, in my personal opinion only, explain the progressive drag increase observed prior to the main event.
Below is a diagram of the left wing structure, which I hope helps to visualise the layout and what it all looks like under the Thermal Protection System (TPS). Note the short distance between the LE and the wheel well, around the point where the wing-sweep changes.
Enlargement .
This is taken from the earlier Ko-Fields Report Oct 1987 (1.3mb)
I remain inclined to believe that there may have been (also) a RCC LE panel contributing to the scenario. This would indeed be a formidable missing link. Picky's link of Columbia's LE (Page 10) clearly shows the grey RCC panels for those unfamiliar with the subject. Likewise, the video appears to show two separate pieces of debris falll from the ET at the 81-sec point during launch ---- two bits = two possible damage sites.
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I read the whole email. 40 psi overpressure my foot!! What about the kinetic energy of the wheel fragments? I remember on an introductory course to the F101 that we were told that the most dangerous thing on the aircraft was not the nuclear weapons, but the tyres. It was phrased thus: Each wheel contains enough stored energy in compressed air and stretched nylon to put a golf ball into geosynchronous orbit.
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Further to my last, this statement has been recently released:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Nesbitt
Columbia Accident Investigation Board Feb. 13, 2003
(Phone: 713/301-9571)
RELEASE: 03-072
STATEMENT BY THE COLUMBIA ACCIDENT INVESTIGATION BOARD (Feb. 13, 2003)
Note: The CAIB has asked NASA for administrative support to release information to the public and the media. The following statement was provided by the CAIB for release.
Thermal Analysis Shows Hot Plasma Possible in Columbia Left Wheel Well Area
Preliminary analysis by a NASA working group this week indicates that the temperature indications seen in Columbia's left wheel well during entry would require the presence of plasma (super heated gas surrounding the orbiter during re-entry).
Heat transfer through the structure as from a missing tile would not be sufficient to cause the temperature indications seen in the last minutes of flight. Additional analysis is underway, looking at various scenarios in which a breach of some type, allowing plasma into the wheel well area or elsewhere in the wing, could occur.
Other flight data including gear position indicators and drag information does not support the scenario of an early deployment of the left gear.
The search continues for possible debris from Columbia in the western U.S., but as of early Thursday, no debris further west than Ft. Worth, Texas has been confirmed as Shuttle-related.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I refer to my (and others') earlier remarks on RCC sections.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Nesbitt
Columbia Accident Investigation Board Feb. 13, 2003
(Phone: 713/301-9571)
RELEASE: 03-072
STATEMENT BY THE COLUMBIA ACCIDENT INVESTIGATION BOARD (Feb. 13, 2003)
Note: The CAIB has asked NASA for administrative support to release information to the public and the media. The following statement was provided by the CAIB for release.
Thermal Analysis Shows Hot Plasma Possible in Columbia Left Wheel Well Area
Preliminary analysis by a NASA working group this week indicates that the temperature indications seen in Columbia's left wheel well during entry would require the presence of plasma (super heated gas surrounding the orbiter during re-entry).
Heat transfer through the structure as from a missing tile would not be sufficient to cause the temperature indications seen in the last minutes of flight. Additional analysis is underway, looking at various scenarios in which a breach of some type, allowing plasma into the wheel well area or elsewhere in the wing, could occur.
Other flight data including gear position indicators and drag information does not support the scenario of an early deployment of the left gear.
The search continues for possible debris from Columbia in the western U.S., but as of early Thursday, no debris further west than Ft. Worth, Texas has been confirmed as Shuttle-related.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I refer to my (and others') earlier remarks on RCC sections.
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RCC; chronology
Here is a NASA plain english overview of RCC (reinforced carbon-carbon) panel manufacture, fixings and usage on the wing leading edge:
http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/shuttle/...ps/carbon.html
Plus some coherent reporting on the exact sequence of events, contains some information I'd not seen before:
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg...4/MN226524.DTL
http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/shuttle/...ps/carbon.html
The RCC panels are mechanically attached to the wing with a series of floating joints to reduce loading on the panels caused by wing deflections. The seal between each wing leading edge panel is referred to as a T-seal. The T-seals allow for lateral motion and thermal expansion differences between the RCC and the orbiter wing. In addition, they prevent the direct flow of hot boundary layer gases into the wing leading edge cavity during entry. The T-seals are constructed of RCC.
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg...4/MN226524.DTL
Seconds after this final, abortive communication, two of the shuttle's right-side jets fired to help keep the craft in the right flight orientation, and the elevon motions grew, the left one moving upward by 8.11 degrees.
A second later, all data and communications disappeared.
A second later, all data and communications disappeared.
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atakacs wrote: Some very interresting picts here: http://www.eclipsetours.com/sat/index The net is an amzing place...
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Apparently too interesting. The picts have been removed.
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Apparently too interesting. The picts have been removed.
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Search for Shuttle Pieces
Foot search continues in Albuquerque, New Mexico today for a desk sized pice of shuttle that was tracked by radar as it fell into the Sandia Mountains East of Albuquerque. USAF helicopter search of the area on Thurs yielded nothing, but the search was instigated after a local woman found a confirmed piece of the shuttle on Thurs morning.
Albuquerque is some distance away from the main crash area in Texas, and the shuttle was viewed as it passed overhead to be reasonably intact (ie no distinct trails in the sky).
Albuquerque is some distance away from the main crash area in Texas, and the shuttle was viewed as it passed overhead to be reasonably intact (ie no distinct trails in the sky).
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A report says that early analysis of low-frequency infrasound data sound-wave recordings suggests that the space shuttle Columbia depressurized and blew apart in a single explosion near Lubbock, Texas.
The report says that a preliminary analysis was posted earlier this week on a Southern Methodist University (SMU) web site and then removed. NASA has impounded the information, along with similar recordings from other infrasound stations in the western United States.
Infrasound is low-frequency sound, waves at 20 hertz or lower – just below the threshold of human hearing. The report said that it took about 30 minutes for the sound waves to travel the distance from the shuttle to the infrasound array near Lajitas in the Big Bend region, and to another in Nevada.
I believe the main purpose of the infrsound network is to plot lightning strikes over the entire USA.
The report says that a preliminary analysis was posted earlier this week on a Southern Methodist University (SMU) web site and then removed. NASA has impounded the information, along with similar recordings from other infrasound stations in the western United States.
Infrasound is low-frequency sound, waves at 20 hertz or lower – just below the threshold of human hearing. The report said that it took about 30 minutes for the sound waves to travel the distance from the shuttle to the infrasound array near Lajitas in the Big Bend region, and to another in Nevada.
I believe the main purpose of the infrsound network is to plot lightning strikes over the entire USA.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Associated Press
HOUSTON -- The board investigating the space shuttle Columbia disaster Saturday toured the Louisiana plant where the orbiter's external fuel tank was built, while searchers scouring the mountains of New Mexico -- west of where any debris has been found -- were coming up empty.
Investigators also revealed that two more Columbia control jets, making at least four in all, continued to fire in a desperate attempt to stabilize the shuttle during its final minutes.
The jets fire automatically when flaps on the shuttle's wings and tail are inadequate to control abnormal motions encountered at supersonic speeds. The information was coaxed from the final 32 seconds of ragged data sent from Columbia as it was breaking apart, investigators said.
The last voice communication from the shuttle's seven astronauts came as Columbia streaked across New Mexico during reentry Feb. 1 before breaking apart about two minutes later.
People near New Mexico's Sandia Mountains, east of Albuquerque, reported hearing a whooshing sound, said Peter Olson, a spokesman for the New Mexico Department of Public Safety. He said there also was radar evidence that debris could have fallen in the state, but he didn't have details.
About 140 searchers concentrated Saturday on a rugged 2-square-mile area of Embudito Canyon, walking a few feet apart. Nothing was found as teams began wrapping up by afternoon; one searcher picked up a small disc of melted metal that was later identified as part of a beer can. Two helicopters from White Sands Missile Range that criss-crossed the area also came up empty.
The Embudito Canyon search was expected to last only a day, but NASA could search elsewhere in the state, officials said.........
HOUSTON -- The board investigating the space shuttle Columbia disaster Saturday toured the Louisiana plant where the orbiter's external fuel tank was built, while searchers scouring the mountains of New Mexico -- west of where any debris has been found -- were coming up empty.
Investigators also revealed that two more Columbia control jets, making at least four in all, continued to fire in a desperate attempt to stabilize the shuttle during its final minutes.
The jets fire automatically when flaps on the shuttle's wings and tail are inadequate to control abnormal motions encountered at supersonic speeds. The information was coaxed from the final 32 seconds of ragged data sent from Columbia as it was breaking apart, investigators said.
The last voice communication from the shuttle's seven astronauts came as Columbia streaked across New Mexico during reentry Feb. 1 before breaking apart about two minutes later.
People near New Mexico's Sandia Mountains, east of Albuquerque, reported hearing a whooshing sound, said Peter Olson, a spokesman for the New Mexico Department of Public Safety. He said there also was radar evidence that debris could have fallen in the state, but he didn't have details.
About 140 searchers concentrated Saturday on a rugged 2-square-mile area of Embudito Canyon, walking a few feet apart. Nothing was found as teams began wrapping up by afternoon; one searcher picked up a small disc of melted metal that was later identified as part of a beer can. Two helicopters from White Sands Missile Range that criss-crossed the area also came up empty.
The Embudito Canyon search was expected to last only a day, but NASA could search elsewhere in the state, officials said.........