Missed Approach/Go Around when on a visual?
Plumbum Pendular
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Missed Approach/Go Around when on a visual?
Imagine the scenario, you are on your way into ACE from LGW, and have been cleared the STAR, to land on the northerly runway.
At 6000' you are excellent VMC, and see the runway so declare that you are visual and request a visual approach.
You then descend to circuit altitude, proceed from downwind to base to finals, and then go around.
What missed approach procedure should you fly? The one published on the plate for the ILS (even though you have not been cleared the ILS approach) or into the visual circuit?
You can not ask the man in the TWR as he is chatting to an Iberia pilot in Spanish and has been for a while, so you have to do what is expected.
What would be expected? What is the LEGAL thing to do?
At 6000' you are excellent VMC, and see the runway so declare that you are visual and request a visual approach.
You then descend to circuit altitude, proceed from downwind to base to finals, and then go around.
What missed approach procedure should you fly? The one published on the plate for the ILS (even though you have not been cleared the ILS approach) or into the visual circuit?
You can not ask the man in the TWR as he is chatting to an Iberia pilot in Spanish and has been for a while, so you have to do what is expected.
What would be expected? What is the LEGAL thing to do?
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Capt Stable is correct, in the event of a missed once cleared for a visual, use the missed for the ILS.
Had to edit the reply because fmgc got in b4 me. I know this is a rule but can't remember where I read it...sozz..
F-S
Had to edit the reply because fmgc got in b4 me. I know this is a rule but can't remember where I read it...sozz..
F-S
Last edited by Flat-Spot; 17th Oct 2002 at 22:03.
Here's what the Canadian regs say..
A visual approach is an approach wherein an aircraft on an IFR flight plan (FP), operating in visual meteorological conditions (VMC), under the control of ATC and having ATC authorization, may proceed to the airport of destination.
The controller considers acceptance of a visual approach clearance as acknowledgement that the pilot shall be responsable for:
a...at controlled aerodromes, maintaining separation from traffic that the pilot is instructed to follow;
b...maintaining adequate wake turbulence separation;
c...navigation to the final approach;
d...adherence to published noise abatement procedures and compliance with any restrictions that may apply to Class F airspace; and
e...at uncontrolled aerodromes, maintaining appropriate separation from VFR traffic that, in many cases, will not be known to ATC.
A visual approach is not an instrument approach procedure and therefore has no missed approach segment. If a go-around is necessary for any reason, aircraft operating at controlled airports will be issued an appropriate advisory/clearance/instruction by the tower.
A visual approach is an approach wherein an aircraft on an IFR flight plan (FP), operating in visual meteorological conditions (VMC), under the control of ATC and having ATC authorization, may proceed to the airport of destination.
The controller considers acceptance of a visual approach clearance as acknowledgement that the pilot shall be responsable for:
a...at controlled aerodromes, maintaining separation from traffic that the pilot is instructed to follow;
b...maintaining adequate wake turbulence separation;
c...navigation to the final approach;
d...adherence to published noise abatement procedures and compliance with any restrictions that may apply to Class F airspace; and
e...at uncontrolled aerodromes, maintaining appropriate separation from VFR traffic that, in many cases, will not be known to ATC.
A visual approach is not an instrument approach procedure and therefore has no missed approach segment. If a go-around is necessary for any reason, aircraft operating at controlled airports will be issued an appropriate advisory/clearance/instruction by the tower.
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Onwards and upwards into the visual circuit. I have done this on numerous occasions, both with and without ATC permission. no one ever told me I was a naughty boy. Before anyone mentions it, my take offs and departures are great, some of them have bordered on genius....it's the approaches I can't hack.
Maybe there is some confusion with a visual contact approach, anyway I'm sure our friends from ATC can give us the answer.
Edited before speeling police get me
Maybe there is some confusion with a visual contact approach, anyway I'm sure our friends from ATC can give us the answer.
Edited before speeling police get me
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I'm fascinated to know what the correct procedure is if you are forced to go around during a circling approach.
For instance, you reach minimums and begin circling with the runway in sight, but then you lose it (for whatever reason). Where do you go now?
Thanks,
E.S.
For instance, you reach minimums and begin circling with the runway in sight, but then you lose it (for whatever reason). Where do you go now?
Thanks,
E.S.
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The laid down procedure for a missed approach from a circling approach, is a climbing turn into the overhead to re-establish onto the missed approach procedure for the instrument approach segment. (PANS-OPS 8168). As from a straight in procedure resulting in a missed approach, commence with the instrument approach go-around until obtaining clearance to re-establish in the visual circuit. I saw an aircraft do a go-around from an unstabilised approach and position itself onto a visual downwind resulting in a direct conflict with an aircraft already established on the downwind leg!
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Batman,
Sounds like a particularly difficult manoeuver if you've lost visual contact with the Runway(s). You break from the instrument procedure to perform a circle to land. After, say, 120 degs of a 270 turn (eg Kathmandu), you find yourself in cloud and, having lost visual contact, start trying to work out how to get back round to the instrument missed appproach.
Does anyone have experience of flying such an approach?
E.S.
Sounds like a particularly difficult manoeuver if you've lost visual contact with the Runway(s). You break from the instrument procedure to perform a circle to land. After, say, 120 degs of a 270 turn (eg Kathmandu), you find yourself in cloud and, having lost visual contact, start trying to work out how to get back round to the instrument missed appproach.
Does anyone have experience of flying such an approach?
E.S.
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Yes....ZRH, with a B707 many years ago, twice in one month, one with me PF, the other with the F/O flying.
ILS to 16, circle to 28, nighttime, instrument approach to 28 not available.
On left downwind for 28, lost sight of the runway, started climb and continued left turn to join the 16 ILS missed approach procedure.
ILS to 16, circle to 28, nighttime, instrument approach to 28 not available.
On left downwind for 28, lost sight of the runway, started climb and continued left turn to join the 16 ILS missed approach procedure.
Humus Motor
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Ejector, batman is completely correct. I think that if there were serious terrain problems there would either be a published difference from ICAO PANS-OPS procedures or circling would be not permitted.
This is one of the horrible grey areas in instrument procedures. Once you have departed from the procedure to carry out a circling approach, you have, to all intents and purposes, thrown the missed approach away - at least the inherent obstacle clearance protection.
Not all circling procedures are equal as far as obstacle clearance areas go. FAA TERPS circling areas are significantly smaller than those designed to PANS OPS, and will be found in Japan & Korea as well as the US. Getting from a rejected circling approach back onto the missed approach segment is where you find limbo land.
The position of the MAPt in relation to the airfield could be critical.
Circling approaches probably offer the best(worst?) opportunity for CFIT. Be careful, very careful!
Not all circling procedures are equal as far as obstacle clearance areas go. FAA TERPS circling areas are significantly smaller than those designed to PANS OPS, and will be found in Japan & Korea as well as the US. Getting from a rejected circling approach back onto the missed approach segment is where you find limbo land.
The position of the MAPt in relation to the airfield could be critical.
Circling approaches probably offer the best(worst?) opportunity for CFIT. Be careful, very careful!
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Fascinating stuff.
411A, thanks for that description. Presumably if you had lost visual when on base leg (as opposed to left downwind) your missed approach procedure would have been somewhat different. And different again if you were over the threshold itself. Which must make the briefing for such an approach rather complex!
Wasn't there a recent(ish) crash in the Far East where plane overshot on the base leg when circling and hit terrain?
I'm not trying to make any point here, btw, just fascinated to hear how pilots deal with this situation, which presumably doesn't occur very often.
E.S.
411A, thanks for that description. Presumably if you had lost visual when on base leg (as opposed to left downwind) your missed approach procedure would have been somewhat different. And different again if you were over the threshold itself. Which must make the briefing for such an approach rather complex!
Wasn't there a recent(ish) crash in the Far East where plane overshot on the base leg when circling and hit terrain?
I'm not trying to make any point here, btw, just fascinated to hear how pilots deal with this situation, which presumably doesn't occur very often.
E.S.
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Not sure I would agree with that.
My instinct when having broken off an ILS for a LH downwind visual for the opposite end would be simply to jag back left to the LLZ then right again to carry out the ILS MAP.
411A, I don't understand why an ILS to 16 would be followed by LH visual circuit on 28. Why not RH? That would make it a lot easier to rejoin the 16 ILS MAP.
My instinct when having broken off an ILS for a LH downwind visual for the opposite end would be simply to jag back left to the LLZ then right again to carry out the ILS MAP.
411A, I don't understand why an ILS to 16 would be followed by LH visual circuit on 28. Why not RH? That would make it a lot easier to rejoin the 16 ILS MAP.
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If you lose visual contact on a circling approach the first thing is to turn towards the centre of the airport. The protected airspace is based on distances from the centre. At the same time initiate a climb to the safe altitude.
Attempting to follow the missed for the LOC on 27 when you are well to the right attempting to set up and land on 18 may lead you into trouble--or terrain!
Attempting to follow the missed for the LOC on 27 when you are well to the right attempting to set up and land on 18 may lead you into trouble--or terrain!
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Very simple Captain Stable, I wanted to be in a position to keep the runway in sight, being in the LH seat and all.....
The fellow in the RH seat was brand new, and he needed all the help I could give him....as always
The fellow in the RH seat was brand new, and he needed all the help I could give him....as always
Wasn't there a recent(ish) crash in the Far East where plane overshot on the base leg when circling and hit terrain?
If you lose visual contact on a circling approach the first thing is to turn towards the centre of the airport. The protected airspace is based on distances from the centre.
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If there is no published special procedure due to, for example, terrain in the vicinity, the standard miss from a circling approach should be a turn towards the centre of the airfield and then carry out the missed approach procedure for the instrument approach in use.
Simply put if you carry out a LLZ app to R/W 18 and break to circle to land R/W 36 you would follow the miss for the LLZ 18.
Simply put if you carry out a LLZ app to R/W 18 and break to circle to land R/W 36 you would follow the miss for the LLZ 18.
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Sorry Pigboat,AIP Canada stipulates in RAC9.25:missed appr while visually manoeuvring vicinity aerodrome-climb,turn to centre of airport ,establish,as closely as poss' to published missed approach proc'
The problem is in the tower,if he calls you' landed,'as he see's you fly by in the clear(it's happened at YYJ)-he can advise atc to release the next flight into the procedure.ergo if you have to 'miss'use the published 'escape 'route(hopefully not back up the app' track)
The problem is in the tower,if he calls you' landed,'as he see's you fly by in the clear(it's happened at YYJ)-he can advise atc to release the next flight into the procedure.ergo if you have to 'miss'use the published 'escape 'route(hopefully not back up the app' track)