Flare A320, is looking far away useless?
Joined: Oct 2023
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 80
Likes: 72
From: UK
Except you can see the Manchester hump from more or less any point on the final approach? Even if you’re ‘head’s in’ until CAT1 minima then you’ve still got time to prepare for it.
I REALLY SHOULDN'T BE HERE
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,458
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From: TOD
A lot of the conversation around standard flare technique is relevant to low experienced pilots or new to type. At a certain point, especially when it comes to runways with unusual profiles, restricted visibility, lack of useable horizon etc you need to engage the grey matter to understand which cues are of most use for the particular runway in question and anticipate those cues which might mislead you. There is no magic sauce, the FCTM technique is a good way to develop a baseline technique which is perfectly good for the vast majority of runways under most conditions. Having a solid, consistent technique allows you to adjust as appropriate for particular circumstances.
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 434
Likes: 8
From: Italy
Just to add to the very valuable points above, I would say that my best tip to a new pilot learning to land an Airbus FBW would be to make sure you fly your profile (ie. 3 deg-700ft/min) all the way down to the flare height, to maintain that consistency in your visual perspective and closure rate.. and of course if for any reason you are too flat or too steep adjust your flare height accordingly. So keep your scan (including VS) going for as long as possible to help you in the process.
Joined: Sep 2008
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
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From: 41S174E
So keep your scan (including VS) going for as long as possible to help you in the process.
Joined: Mar 2006
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
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From: Western Europe
A/T off.. Small movements of the side stick (almost none). Keep yourself super stabilized but don't over control. Flare but try and time it so you can do another mini flare just bas the wheels are about to touch.
Joined: Sep 2008
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 3
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From: United States
Your instructor is half right - and fixing the half he's wrong about will clean up the rest of your flare.
The old "look away from the aiming point" advice causes exactly the problem you described. A sudden shift in visual reference mid-flare disrupts your pitch control because your hands follow your eyes. So he's correct that a deliberate "look away" can destabilize things. That part checks out.
Where he's slightly off: "keep looking at the fat markers" isn't the answer either. If you stare at the touchdown zone all the way down, you lose your ability to judge sink rate and height in the last 20 feet - the markers rush under you and your brain runs out of depth cues right when you need them most.
The technique that actually works is a progressive shift. Use the aiming point to fly the path on approach. As you begin the flare, let your eyes travel further down the runway - not sideways, not randomly "away," just progressively ahead. This is what gives you the peripheral runway expansion cues that tell you how fast the ground is coming up and whether your attitude is right.
Airbus training material says it plainly - look well ahead during the flare and landing to judge aircraft position relative to the ground. The A320 cockpit geometry actually makes this easier than most types because the sight picture is so clean.
Your old technique was probably too abrupt. Your instructor smoothed out the scan and that's why your flare improved. But the real target isn't "stare at the markers." It's a gradual transition from aiming point to runway ahead as you enter the flare. Once that becomes habit, the rest sorts itself out.
The old "look away from the aiming point" advice causes exactly the problem you described. A sudden shift in visual reference mid-flare disrupts your pitch control because your hands follow your eyes. So he's correct that a deliberate "look away" can destabilize things. That part checks out.
Where he's slightly off: "keep looking at the fat markers" isn't the answer either. If you stare at the touchdown zone all the way down, you lose your ability to judge sink rate and height in the last 20 feet - the markers rush under you and your brain runs out of depth cues right when you need them most.
The technique that actually works is a progressive shift. Use the aiming point to fly the path on approach. As you begin the flare, let your eyes travel further down the runway - not sideways, not randomly "away," just progressively ahead. This is what gives you the peripheral runway expansion cues that tell you how fast the ground is coming up and whether your attitude is right.
Airbus training material says it plainly - look well ahead during the flare and landing to judge aircraft position relative to the ground. The A320 cockpit geometry actually makes this easier than most types because the sight picture is so clean.
Your old technique was probably too abrupt. Your instructor smoothed out the scan and that's why your flare improved. But the real target isn't "stare at the markers." It's a gradual transition from aiming point to runway ahead as you enter the flare. Once that becomes habit, the rest sorts itself out.
Fleet Manager
Joined: Apr 2001
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 7,448
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From: various places .....
Lots of useful advice in this thread, but what it all comes down to, in summary, is that the new chum needs something (?) to provide a bit of guidance so he/she doesn't bend the bird on the first landing. Then after some time, he/she will use the benefit of exposure and thinking about what has been going on to modify that initial "guidance" to produce something acceptable for his/her routine landings. Progressively, things will resolve for the thinking pilot and the "quality" (however you might like to define that) will improve. For some, this happens relatively quickly, for others it takes a bit longer. For some, I guess, it only reaches a plateau sufficient not to frighten the passengers too much but still get a pass grade on recurrent checks.
Some pilots are exceptional in their final approach and touchdown. I well recall a lovely chap, Standish Brooke, who is no longer with us, on the 727-200. He would drive it down to the aiming point and then, just as any rational person would expect a crash, the aircraft just, sort of, ran along the runway. In the time I flew with him, his worst landing was near perfect, and his best, absolutely perfect. Yet, over overnight beers, he couldn't quite explain how he did it. Whatever he did just, sort of, worked. Certainly, I couldn't figure out what his technique sequence was in any detail. Me ? All my initial 727 flying was on the -200 and the company's "check and roll" guidance just didn't cut the mustard - my landings were the stuff of not bothering to write home to mother about. Then, I flew a couple of months on a -100 freighter. All of a sudden, the landing became little different to landing a 172 and my problems on the -200 disappeared relatively rapidly once I returned to passenger flying.
My suggestion is not to sweat it too much in the early days, either learning to fly, or transitioning to a new Type. Apply the advised guidance until you have enough landings to modify and refine that guidance to come up with a technique which works consistently and reliably for you.
At day's end, it's just another FAR 25 style aeroplane ....
Some pilots are exceptional in their final approach and touchdown. I well recall a lovely chap, Standish Brooke, who is no longer with us, on the 727-200. He would drive it down to the aiming point and then, just as any rational person would expect a crash, the aircraft just, sort of, ran along the runway. In the time I flew with him, his worst landing was near perfect, and his best, absolutely perfect. Yet, over overnight beers, he couldn't quite explain how he did it. Whatever he did just, sort of, worked. Certainly, I couldn't figure out what his technique sequence was in any detail. Me ? All my initial 727 flying was on the -200 and the company's "check and roll" guidance just didn't cut the mustard - my landings were the stuff of not bothering to write home to mother about. Then, I flew a couple of months on a -100 freighter. All of a sudden, the landing became little different to landing a 172 and my problems on the -200 disappeared relatively rapidly once I returned to passenger flying.
My suggestion is not to sweat it too much in the early days, either learning to fly, or transitioning to a new Type. Apply the advised guidance until you have enough landings to modify and refine that guidance to come up with a technique which works consistently and reliably for you.
At day's end, it's just another FAR 25 style aeroplane ....
