MCP ALT setting for visual approach in USA
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I think some people are overthinking it. Set an altitude that you think is reasonable. If they give you something else, set that altitude. If your guess is wrong, you don’t lose any points.
Unless there’s traffic already at the altitude you guessed, then it’s a TCAS or mid air as pilots in the USA are very fond of switching to TA only in the terminal area.
The only time we had an issue with this was going into PHX, where the published miss had you going to 5000', while ATC would actually only climb you to 3000'. Guys with the local knowledge always set the alerter to 3000', but it eventually ended up in our company notes because so many were getting burned by setting it to the missed approach altitude and blowing through 3000' during the ensuing helmet fire.
I'm sorry, I'm wasn't being clear. The published miss for whatever procedure (generally an ILS - don't think I've ever landed on 25R) we used to back up the visual.
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I think it may be worthwhile to see what the FAA AIM says about this in 7-4-1
If you’re flying a Boeing or Airbus, you’re not going to an airport where you’ll be told to enter the pattern, so we can ignore that part. That second part is what we’re really going to be concerned with. It simply says “proceed as otherwise instructed”. You’ll get an altitude and heading to fly.
The published missed approach procedure on an IAP doesn’t mean much to ATC either (as I understand it) because they’ll just give you what they need anyway.
At airports with an operating control tower, aircraft executing a go-around may be directed to:
1. Enter the traffic pattern for landing. An altitude assignment is not required. The pilot is expected to climb to pattern altitude and is responsible to maintain terrain and obstruction avoidance. ATC must provide approved separation or visual separation from other IFR aircraft, or
2. Proceed as otherwise instructed by ATC. The pilot is expected to comply with assigned instructions, and responsible to maintain terrain and obstruction avoidance until reaching an ATC assigned altitude. ATC is responsible to provide instructions to the pilot to facilitate a climb to the minimum altitude for instrument operations. ATC must provide approved separation or visual separation from other IFR aircraft.
1. Enter the traffic pattern for landing. An altitude assignment is not required. The pilot is expected to climb to pattern altitude and is responsible to maintain terrain and obstruction avoidance. ATC must provide approved separation or visual separation from other IFR aircraft, or
2. Proceed as otherwise instructed by ATC. The pilot is expected to comply with assigned instructions, and responsible to maintain terrain and obstruction avoidance until reaching an ATC assigned altitude. ATC is responsible to provide instructions to the pilot to facilitate a climb to the minimum altitude for instrument operations. ATC must provide approved separation or visual separation from other IFR aircraft.
If you’re flying a Boeing or Airbus, you’re not going to an airport where you’ll be told to enter the pattern, so we can ignore that part. That second part is what we’re really going to be concerned with. It simply says “proceed as otherwise instructed”. You’ll get an altitude and heading to fly.
The published missed approach procedure on an IAP doesn’t mean much to ATC either (as I understand it) because they’ll just give you what they need anyway.
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In short, set any altitude you want. There are no wrong answers. I'm yet to come across the situation where it's something other than a whole multiple of 1000, at at least 2000 AGL.
You can set 10,000 for the missed going into ORD, they'll still give you 4000
Ignore us europeans, we are not trained or allowed to fly anything outside of a magenta line dragging us around by the nose..
(Lights the fuse, steps back to watch fireworks ensue
besides, which Missed will you fly? The one that turns right or left? As opposed to the one ATC wants you to fly?..
(Lights the fuse, steps back to watch fireworks ensue
besides, which Missed will you fly? The one that turns right or left? As opposed to the one ATC wants you to fly?..
Let's go!
I'm glad you can measure the height of the terrain with your eyesight alone.
Visual approach RVR no less than 1/2 mile.
Some Southwest guys (and gals) like to shoot a visual on 2/3 mile RVR alone.
I'm glad you can measure the height of the terrain with your eyesight alone.
Visual approach RVR no less than 1/2 mile.
Some Southwest guys (and gals) like to shoot a visual on 2/3 mile RVR alone.
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A visual approach is conducted on an IFR flight plan and authorizes a pilot to proceed visually and clear of clouds to the airport. The pilot must have either the airport or the preceding identified aircraft in sight. This approach must be authorized and controlled by the appropriate air traffic control facility. Reported weather at the airport must have a ceiling at or above 1,000 feet and visibility 3 miles or greater.
I think it may be worthwhile to see what the FAA AIM says about this in 7-4-1
If you’re flying a Boeing or Airbus, you’re not going to an airport where you’ll be told to enter the pattern, so we can ignore that part. That second part is what we’re really going to be concerned with. It simply says “proceed as otherwise instructed”. You’ll get an altitude and heading to fly.
The published missed approach procedure on an IAP doesn’t mean much to ATC either (as I understand it) because they’ll just give you what they need anyway.
If you’re flying a Boeing or Airbus, you’re not going to an airport where you’ll be told to enter the pattern, so we can ignore that part. That second part is what we’re really going to be concerned with. It simply says “proceed as otherwise instructed”. You’ll get an altitude and heading to fly.
The published missed approach procedure on an IAP doesn’t mean much to ATC either (as I understand it) because they’ll just give you what they need anyway.
However, it would be nice if there was a published standard heading/altitude for those times that ATC does not "otherwise instruct". I have been in the US for the last 20 years, and this is still a point of discussion, and it really should not be. ATIS advertises visual for a specific runway, and there is no NOTAM that the ILS for that rwy is not available. SOP is to back up the visual with that ILS, and set pattern altitude for the GA.
Was told to GA in BWI due to being too close to preceding traffic. Initially no other instructions were given by tower. Asked 4 times for an altitude, never got an assignment, finally was told to turn south (towards the 1100' towers, 2600' MSA) and contact approach. Approach was very busy, so FO and I agreed we would climb to 2000' before we were able to talk to them. Traffic overhead at 3000'. Obviously there was no plan in place to handle a GA in VMC, and that is not acceptable.
Like you said, ATC is not going to expect us to join the downwind at 1500', so pattern altitude does not apply, and ATC is responsible for providing a safe IFR altitude. So why not publish one?