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Port & Starboard versus Left and Right

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Port & Starboard versus Left and Right

Old 7th Dec 2022, 16:54
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Abeam....though it's said over the frequency quite a bit.
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Old 7th Dec 2022, 17:26
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Originally Posted by saislor
On US ships, right and left are used for helm orders only. This avoids confusion when someone says, "what is that 20 degrees to starboard" followed by the helm responding "20 degrees starboard, aye." followed by the conn saying something nautical but not repeatable.

"The port goes down the throat" is how I was taught to find the throat and peak halyards on a gaff-rigged vessel. The throat halyard is attached to the end of the gaff by the mast, and is hauled on the port side.
On British war ships I believe directions are given with a colour. "Green five ooh" "Red twenty". iirc this is because you may order a turn to left but end up facing right (if that makes sense).
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Old 7th Dec 2022, 17:27
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Originally Posted by BBK
The 787 uses Left and Right but at least one company uses 1 and 2 for communicating with the ground crew during engine start. Do military aircraft still use port and starboard?
Is this because left, right, port, starboard are different due to your perspective? My right being your left etc.
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Old 7th Dec 2022, 19:05
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Uxb99

Exactly what you said although it took me a while to get out of the habit of saying “clear on 4 and 3…..”
As someone mentioned upthread there is the possibility of confusion arising when communicating with the cabin crew so probably best to clarify eg captain’s side, FO’s side.
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Old 7th Dec 2022, 20:01
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And an old maritime rule, Green to Green, Red to Red, in perfect safety go ahead
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Old 7th Dec 2022, 21:50
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PORT/STARBOARD RED/GREEN in the BN2


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Old 7th Dec 2022, 23:22
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Originally Posted by uxb99
Is this because left, right, port, starboard are different due to your perspective? My right being your left etc.
Left and right are relative to which way your body is facing inside the craft, but port and starboard are not. Which is the point of using them... they're absolute. Port is always the side that the doors are, the captain sits, and the wing with the red light bulb is. Starboard is always the other.
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Old 7th Dec 2022, 23:25
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Originally Posted by cavuman1
Red Right Return.

Apologies for nautical content.

- Ed
Only in IALA region B, the Americas, South Korea, Japan, the Phillipines, Taiwan...
In the rest of the world, the red marks are to port (left) as you return to port.

https://www.marineinsight.com/marine...ypes-of-marks/

In Cincinnati I would imagine "returning to port" means "headed for Pittsburgh"?

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Old 8th Dec 2022, 00:44
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Every day a school day, nonsense! I will say that a ride up Pittsburgh's Mt. Washington on the funicular leads to an Italian restaurant (name forgotten) which served the best martini I have ever had. The veal Marsala was excellent as well. Though Pittsburgh is a fine town, I'd prefer to make port in, say, Barbados.

- Ed
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Old 8th Dec 2022, 02:29
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Originally Posted by dixi188
I think Boeing changed from 1,2 to Left, Right with the 757/767.
.
Not on the archaic 737, still 1 and 2.
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Old 8th Dec 2022, 04:04
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Boat hull language of ‘port’ and ‘starboard’ fix where the the pointy end must be. You can sit in a boat facing backwards and your left hand or pocket is still your left hand/pocket, but the unchanging starboard side of the hull will now be on your right.

It’s a bit like the ‘left’ bank of a river, which has directionality built into the concept and assumes that the river flows down and away from one. In this case it’s dedicated river language, there for a purpose. The Dnipro flows south, so Kherson is on the west bank, whereas Ukraine’s troops are now crossing to the east or ‘left’ side. (Even though it looks like the right side when seen on a north-facing map.) The old brain spins like a compass in oil.
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Old 8th Dec 2022, 05:03
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Originally Posted by cavuman1
Every day a school day, nonsense! I will say that a ride up Pittsburgh's Mt. Washington on the funicular leads to an Italian restaurant (name forgotten) which served the best martini I have ever had. The veal Marsala was excellent as well. Though Pittsburgh is a fine town, I'd prefer to make port in, say, Barbados.

- Ed
Drifting sharply off topic, I've never been to Pittsburgh; I've been to Barbados (in 1971), but I chose to visit Cincinnati again for five weeks last fall (September) to escape the last of the Australian winter. After 17 years since I was last there quite a lot has changed. It's a terrible pity the inclines at Price Hill or Mt Adams are long gone.

Vaguely back on topic, in the car industry (or the minor backwater of it that I worked for, GM-H), while we didn't use port and starboard, we used left and right defined the same way - while facing forward - and all parts which had left and right side versions had sequential odd and even part numbers. Thus the left side part had an odd part number, while the right side part was numbered one higher to achieve a matching even part number. A supplier I later worked for used the same system.
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Old 8th Dec 2022, 08:45
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On the other hand, street numbering starts with nr 1 on the right side, and nr 2 on the left side and all odd numbers on the the right hand side. Of course, looking from the start of the street to the end...
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Old 8th Dec 2022, 08:58
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Originally Posted by washoutt
On the other hand, street numbering starts with nr 1 on the right side, and nr 2 on the left side and all odd numbers on the the right hand side. Of course, looking from the start of the street to the end...
Not in our avenue. Odds on the left. Maybe streets are different.
Maybe it's down to which side you drive.
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Old 8th Dec 2022, 10:54
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Originally Posted by Vessbot
Left and right are relative to which way your body is facing inside the craft, but port and starboard are not. Which is the point of using them... they're absolute. Port is always the side that the doors are, the captain sits, and the wing with the red light bulb is. Starboard is always the other.
Not all of that is correct if you fly a helicopter!
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Old 8th Dec 2022, 16:13
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Originally Posted by washoutt
On the other hand, street numbering starts with nr 1 on the right side, and nr 2 on the left side and all odd numbers on the the right hand side. Of course, looking from the start of the street to the end...
Dunno, in one of the two cities i live the street numbering starts on one side, runs all the way through 1,2,3 through the end of that side and then returns on the other side. Which is why the highest street number and the lowest are opposite to each other. In the other i have the funny situation that the entry to the underground garage is 30 numbers lower than the pedestrian entry to the building, all of 15 meters apart...

Apart from that, the starboard/port thing seems to be predominantly an english discussion, haven't had that anywhere else in aviation.
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Old 8th Dec 2022, 16:33
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Originally Posted by zlin77
yet they use L and R fuel valve.
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Old 8th Dec 2022, 18:03
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What are those fuel valves for? The big red and green ones are the ones I remember. Havn't been in an Islander since about 1987.
Also, why are the mags on and the fuel pumps off?
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Old 8th Dec 2022, 18:57
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Originally Posted by ShyTorque
During my RAF QHI course I was teamed up with a Royal Navy pilot.

When spot turning the helicopter I’d been trained to announce “TAIL GOING LEFT”, “TAIL GOING RIGHT” or “MOVING BACK” etc as required for the benefit of crew cooperation.

My RN colleague used to instead say stuff like “TURNING TO PORT”, “TURNING TO STARB’D” and “GOING ABAFT!”

I think he just did it to confuse me, but I did get used to it and sometimes imitated him with a pirate accent.
Clearly he was winding you up.

No sailor would ever misuse the word "abaft" to means moving in a sternwards didection. Never ever. 'Abaft' can only describe a relative position. "The helm is abaft the mainmast". The destroyer turned abaft the cruiser".
It cannot possibly be used as a direction of motion. That is described as 'astern'. A vessel - or a helo - can move astern, it can never move abaft unless it moves abaft relative to something else as the term expresses where it moved, not in what manner or direction.
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Old 9th Dec 2022, 00:11
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Port is always the side that the doors are
Bit of a problem when all our airliners have doors on both sides, albeit the port one is usually used for entrance, you could have your DC-3 with the door on either side.
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