Port & Starboard versus Left and Right
Thread Starter
Thanks to all for the feedback on this, including funny tales. EXDAC, stilton: not sure how I got it in my head that Port and Starboard had been common in aviation. Following the feedback, I looked up my 1994 dictionary of nautical terms and after explaining that "the left side was called the larboard side until the 17th century, when port was adopted to reduce the confusion caused by similar-sounding larboard and starboard" (per ubx99) it even indicates: "the use if port and starboard have also begun to give way to left and right"! Just be careful if you are a tail gunner though!
Oh, and I have since found this other exchange on the topic, similar to comments above: https://aviation.stackexchange.com/q...ed-in-aviation
Oh, and I have since found this other exchange on the topic, similar to comments above: https://aviation.stackexchange.com/q...ed-in-aviation
Last edited by helispotter; 6th Dec 2022 at 09:30.
Chief Bottle Washer
Just my two pennyworth as an ex RN airframe driver, we were brought up proper and always used Port and Starboard in naval aviation. Even formation flying references would be echelon port, echelon starboard, etc. It followed me throughout my civilian flying and I’ve never even considered that there would be aviators who don’t use the terms!
Apparently larboard is the side from which a ship would be loaded, from middle English latebord. Clearly wiser to say "port" which will not be misheard.
As for me, I am sinister rather than dexterous.
As for me, I am sinister rather than dexterous.
https://britten-norman.com/app/uploa...Islander-1.pdf
Some references seem to suggest that left, aft, and right were the descriptors used for Trilander engines.
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In 20 years only ever heard port/starboard from students who had boats. Pretty pointless in aircraft where the control seats only face forward. (At least, for the flying part of things. I have had FA's multiple times say left and right backward, since they spend most of their time facing that way! So an absolute airframe-based direction system is not a bad idea for them. But we have CA side and FO side for that, instead of nautical terms.)
I have never flown, or been in, a BN2 but I confirmed they do use port and starboard as descriptors:
https://britten-norman.com/app/uploa...Islander-1.pdf
Some references seem to suggest that left, aft, and right were the descriptors used for Trilander engines.
https://britten-norman.com/app/uploa...Islander-1.pdf
Some references seem to suggest that left, aft, and right were the descriptors used for Trilander engines.
https://www.airliners.net/photo/Aurigny-Air-Services/Britten-Norman-BN-2A-Mk3-2-Trislander/315330/L
Last edited by dixi188; 6th Dec 2022 at 16:10. Reason: wrong link
Avoid imitations
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Just my two pennyworth as an ex RN airframe driver, we were brought up proper and always used Port and Starboard in naval aviation. Even formation flying references would be echelon port, echelon starboard, etc. It followed me throughout my civilian flying and I’ve never even considered that there would be aviators who don’t use the terms!
It's probably worth mentioning that, for a long-time, long-range aircraft had (at least) two engines on each side. So a simple 'port - starboard' or even 'left - right' was not sufficient. Hence engine's 1, 2, 3, 4 (from left to right).
It wasn't all that long ago that I often heard flight crews (and even ground maintenance types) refer to engines on a twin as '1 and 2' - presumably as a bit of a throwback to the 747 (and perhaps 707).
However EICAS messages on twins have aways referred to the engines as "L and R" - while the 747-400 and -8 have them numbered 1 - 4.
It wasn't all that long ago that I often heard flight crews (and even ground maintenance types) refer to engines on a twin as '1 and 2' - presumably as a bit of a throwback to the 747 (and perhaps 707).
However EICAS messages on twins have aways referred to the engines as "L and R" - while the 747-400 and -8 have them numbered 1 - 4.
Even going back 50-odd years, I don't recall much use of "port" and "starboard" in maintenance circles.
For much of my hangar-rat career, left and right engines were No 1 and No 3.
For much of my hangar-rat career, left and right engines were No 1 and No 3.
In the seventies I was at Marham on a Victor K1A and we were doing a Practice Pan with the examiner on board with the number four at flight idle, and on what was then called an overshoot, he called for full power on numbers one two and three. There was a bang and the number three caught fire and I put out a Mayday but I used the term 'the starboard inboard is on fire' !
BN Trislander engines are "Port, Rear, Stbd".
https://www.airliners.net/photo/Aurigny-Air-Services/Britten-Norman-BN-2A-Mk3-2-Trislander/315330/L
https://www.airliners.net/photo/Aurigny-Air-Services/Britten-Norman-BN-2A-Mk3-2-Trislander/315330/L
https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/8112742
Port and Stbd nomenclature was certainly still used in British Military Aircraft at least up to the (Metal) Harrier/Hawk T1 era (ie in parts catalogues and component names).
I officially changed over to L+R when I started working on Plastic Harriers (GR5 upwards) but it never bothered me which words were used - I was happy to use either system.
Same as I was happy to use any of the impressive list of different units for measurements and capacities,sometimes of course different units were used when comparing an export aircraft to a (same type of ) RAF Aircraft.
I officially changed over to L+R when I started working on Plastic Harriers (GR5 upwards) but it never bothered me which words were used - I was happy to use either system.
Same as I was happy to use any of the impressive list of different units for measurements and capacities,sometimes of course different units were used when comparing an export aircraft to a (same type of ) RAF Aircraft.
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Just to muddy the waters a little, this thread reminds me of the single debrief comment from a JP5A formation trip I did, as a student, many years ago.
'Make sure you call the clock code correctly while inverted!'
'Make sure you call the clock code correctly while inverted!'
It's probably worth mentioning that, for a long-time, long-range aircraft had (at least) two engines on each side. So a simple 'port - starboard' or even 'left - right' was not sufficient. Hence engine's 1, 2, 3, 4 (from left to right).
It wasn't all that long ago that I often heard flight crews (and even ground maintenance types) refer to engines on a twin as '1 and 2' - presumably as a bit of a throwback to the 747 (and perhaps 707).
However EICAS messages on twins have aways referred to the engines as "L and R" - while the 747-400 and -8 have them numbered 1 - 4.
It wasn't all that long ago that I often heard flight crews (and even ground maintenance types) refer to engines on a twin as '1 and 2' - presumably as a bit of a throwback to the 747 (and perhaps 707).
However EICAS messages on twins have aways referred to the engines as "L and R" - while the 747-400 and -8 have them numbered 1 - 4.
Avoid imitations
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As we walked in from the aircraft my instructor said:“Well, that was a very smooth trip!”
”Thank you, sir!” I replied, feeling very pleased to receive what was a very rare compliment.
”Not you, you ****, I meant the weather…!
“Such was the RAF flying training system of the late 1970s.
Back in the late 60's to mid 70's, in the RAF, I was an airframe fitter on Lightning majors and it was, port, starboard, mainplane, tailplane and fin. I left to join BA on B747 majors and later B777's. There I was introduced to wings, horizontal and vertical stabilisers and of course left and right. The whole tail section was called an empennage, I had to look that up in a dictionary. Lots of nautical terms in aircraft construction, frame, stringer, bulkhead, deck, beam, spar, hatch, keel, longeron, tiller, to name some. Then you have the crew, Captain, purser, stewards and stewardess's.
The 787 uses Left and Right but at least one company uses 1 and 2 for communicating with the ground crew during engine start. Do military aircraft still use port and starboard?
BN Trislander engines are "Port, Rear, Stbd".
https://www.airliners.net/photo/Aurigny-Air-Services/Britten-Norman-BN-2A-Mk3-2-Trislander/315330/L
https://www.airliners.net/photo/Aurigny-Air-Services/Britten-Norman-BN-2A-Mk3-2-Trislander/315330/L