Lear 45 questions

[acheo]

Hi,

I'd like to hear about the criteria you are using for biefing rejecting take off. I don't like ours too much and I'm in the process of reviewing the SOPs.

Alos would you have any rule of thumbs regarding when to start TOD to get a good idle descent. The rue of thumbs should take inot account winds, icing, etc.

Thanks for your help!

Acheo

[Pugilistic Animus]

The three things that are automatic RTOs before V1 are Engine Failure, uncontrollabilty and Predictive windshear alert. I don't know if the LJ 45 has Predictive windshear warning but those are just general criteria.

[Jwscud]

When flying the Lear 45, the operator I was at did not use idle descents or speed mode as they caused both a very high rate of descent and an uncomfortable hunting in pitch to capture the target speed.

We tended to use VS mode and 2-2500fpm at an IAS assigned by ATC then use time to level off point to adjust VS to make any altitude constraints. If not given speed constraints we used 300kts and would be descending with some amount of power on. I found this an odd quirk of the aircraft when I first started flying it but quickly got used to it.

I can’t remember clearly what we used to brief for RTOs as it’s 5 years since I flew it but it was the standard Fire, Engine failure, reversed unlock or any other red warning plus Captain’s decision on the aircraft being unsafe to fly. Basically any audio callout or master warning. Having tried a reverse unlock several times in the sim I would say that is the hardest scenario and on a long runway given the aircraft’s stopping ability (easily less than 1000m) would be inclined to put it back down rather than try to fly away.

[thetimesreader84]

Never flew the 45. But emergency brief for the 35 was along the lines of;

“I’ll stop for anything below 80kts. Between 80 and V1 only engine fire or failure, reverse unlock, sudden handling difficulties or blocked runway, or anything I think will stop us getting airborne. To stop the aircraft I will...

Above V1, take it into the air, no actions below 400’ aal, which is XXX on the qnh, except cancel any horns, or emer stow the TRs. Then memory items with confirmation from myself before moving thrust levers, fire handles, guarded switches. We’ll fly straight ahead initially / emergency turn is...

look for return to / divert to / hold at...”

Talk through it for the first flight of the day. After that, “standard brief, differences are...”

[Pugilistic Animus]

I responded to this thread because it looked lonely....I forgot to write, for a 757, EICAS alerts many of which are inhibited somewhere after 80 knots...I did omit that...

This may be controversial but I think redundant briefings of RTO criteria probably gets somewhat ignored, better to brief your OEI special procedures. I think 411A called it "mouth music"

​​​​​sorry for the thread creep

[thetimesreader84]

Originally Posted by Pugilistic Animus

This may be controversial but I think redundant briefings of RTO criteria probably gets somewhat ignored, better to brief your OEI special procedures. I think 411A called it "mouth music"

​​​​​

I don’t disagree that just chanting the same thing day after day without really thinking about it is of very little value, but rehearsing your actions, quizzing your oppo as to what s/he will be doing during this, and having a discussion about how today’s situation would affect the framework above is perhaps more valuable?

[TOGA Tap]

Acheo,
I suggest you to study which CAS messages ARE NOT INHIBITED on take off on a Lear 45. You will see many. Tricky one is NORM BRK FAIL. So after 80 kts call no CAS message should trigger an abort. The actual triggers: fire, engine failure, TR deployment, loss of control ... Are not displayed on CAS.

[Mad (Flt) Scientist]

TOGA Tap from a design perspective, if we didn't bother to inhibit a message on takeoff that rather implies the design intent was that it should be available to crew as a decision-making aid. It does not necessarily mean that a reject for such a message was the intent of the design, but it's certainly quite possible that that was the thought process for the design. The only ones you can be sure were never intended to trigger the abort by design are the masked messages.

[WING7]

Pretty sure most guys would rader have the Norm Brakes Fail inhibited after 80Kts, so would I.