Need of hand written logbook
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Joined: Jun 2015
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From: Hamburg
Need of hand written logbook
Currently shipping the 737 around and was wondering if a hand paper logbook is still mandatory by law. Many colleagues are only using a electronic one on their phones or IPad. Could not find it it written somewhere. Thanks!
Joined: May 2004
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From: Ziltoidia... indeed'd.
It depends on each CAA. As an expat some CAA will give them one of their logbooks for you to fill in when you get a license issued by them. Others will just be happy taking a look at your own logbook, while some others want to see the signature of each instructor that you flew with when you got your first IR twenty years ago, along with the stamp of CTL TWR for each cross country flight.
While navigating around the CAA's with your own logbook is still possible, doing it with an electronic logbook is still a no-no, at least from Istanbul to the East.
While navigating around the CAA's with your own logbook is still possible, doing it with an electronic logbook is still a no-no, at least from Istanbul to the East.
Joined: Mar 2012
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From: Having a margarita on the beach
Can't see the point of even having a logbook nowadays. All the hours can be printed out from the company system and signed by FLT OPS / HR which makes it even more reliable. I personally only use the logbook for recreational SEP flights once in a while and just print out my operator's logged hours signed by somebody in the office whenever I need them.
Joined: Jan 2018
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From: Amantido
FCL.050 Recording of flight time
[...]
INSTRUCTIONS FOR USE
(e) Flight crew logbook entries should be made as soon as practicable after any flight undertaken. All entries in the logbook should be made in ink or indelible pencil.
[...]
INSTRUCTIONS FOR USE
(e) Flight crew logbook entries should be made as soon as practicable after any flight undertaken. All entries in the logbook should be made in ink or indelible pencil.
I'm going fully electronic eventually, both professionally and recreationally.
Joined: Feb 2017
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From: Isla Grande
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
Joined: Jun 2004
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From: Chabanais, France
The beauty of a hand written logbook is you have a continuous almanac of your flying career from First flight, First Solo right through to final check ride and final flight with all the people you flew with and all the margin notes you made along the way, all in a very accessible and readable format. The hand written log books are also a very accurate record of what you flew, who with, where and when. Not sure just how personalised electronic log books can be these days, some employers require a lot more information about one's hours than others, saw an experienced B747 skipper get turned away from the interview once because all he had to offer was a weighty computer print out!
Joined: Apr 2010
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From: IRS NAV ONLY
FCL.050 Recording of flight time
The pilot shall keep a reliable record of the details of all flights flown in a form and manner established by the competent authority.
The pilot shall keep a reliable record of the details of all flights flown in a form and manner established by the competent authority.
Last edited by FlyingStone; 14th May 2019 at 16:15. Reason: Typo
Joined: Aug 2018
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From: Hyderabad
I've never seen the point of these new fangled electronic logbooks. Totally impersonal and worthless.
I'm on paper logbook number four now.
There's more to books than just the data in them.
Just my tuppence worth...
I'm on paper logbook number four now.
There's more to books than just the data in them.
Just my tuppence worth...
Joined: Nov 2010
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From: USA
Joined: Feb 2006
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From: Europe
Can't see the point of even having a logbook nowadays. All the hours can be printed out from the company system and signed by FLT OPS / HR which makes it even more reliable. I personally only use the logbook for recreational SEP flights once in a while and just print out my operator's logged hours signed by somebody in the office whenever I need them.
). So - do NOT rely on that.However, most electronic logbooks offer the option to print out pages, even export them to external print shops to have a pro result(e.g. MCC, just to name the one I use). So, every 6 months I let print off my missing pages, put them in the binder, sign them off. Mission accomplished. Do not understand the discussion here.
Just combine the best of both "worlds"(as an airliner it is not really comfortable to do it the "classic" way and write every flight up - EXCEPT you are a green boy and need to have your first 1500 hours signed off by the Captain as PICUS - after that there is not really a need for discussion anymore), go for electronic, BUT do not rely on electronic alone and have it printed, signed, put it into a binder. A 5 Minute job every 6 months.
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 922
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From: australia
Would suggest largely depends on your prospects in the aviation game, if you're working for a company that will never EVER go broke and that you will never EVER leave then it's an irrelevant question.
If you're a contract pilot or just have s**t luck in your ongoing choice of employers a written logbook will be accepted by all, electronic by some.
If you want to play in someone else's CAA backyard they set their standards and requirements, no matter what you think of them it's their backyard - up to you to decide whether you want to....or can.... play or not.
Cheers.
If you're a contract pilot or just have s**t luck in your ongoing choice of employers a written logbook will be accepted by all, electronic by some.
If you want to play in someone else's CAA backyard they set their standards and requirements, no matter what you think of them it's their backyard - up to you to decide whether you want to....or can.... play or not.
Cheers.
Last edited by galdian; 15th May 2019 at 03:59. Reason: addition
Joined: Aug 2018
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From: Hyderabad
Really, what's the downside of a paper one?
Certainly, it's universally acceptable, easily scanned and future proof. I suppose it's awkward if your ex wife puts them in the fire, as happened to a hostie friend of mines husband...
Certainly, it's universally acceptable, easily scanned and future proof. I suppose it's awkward if your ex wife puts them in the fire, as happened to a hostie friend of mines husband...
Joined: Mar 2012
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From: Having a margarita on the beach
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 2,605
Likes: 154
From: Having a margarita on the beach
Not true for most companies. Could only get direct records from one of my many companies to date(they tend to keep dying on me, currently RYR, no harm to aviation world if they would follow their predecessors here ). So - do NOT rely on that.
However, most electronic logbooks offer the option to print out pages, even export them to external print shops to have a pro result(e.g. MCC, just to name the one I use). So, every 6 months I let print off my missing pages, put them in the binder, sign them off. Mission accomplished. Do not understand the discussion here.
Just combine the best of both "worlds"(as an airliner it is not really comfortable to do it the "classic" way and write every flight up - EXCEPT you are a green boy and need to have your first 1500 hours signed off by the Captain as PICUS - after that there is not really a need for discussion anymore), go for electronic, BUT do not rely on electronic alone and have it printed, signed, put it into a binder. A 5 Minute job every 6 months.
). So - do NOT rely on that.However, most electronic logbooks offer the option to print out pages, even export them to external print shops to have a pro result(e.g. MCC, just to name the one I use). So, every 6 months I let print off my missing pages, put them in the binder, sign them off. Mission accomplished. Do not understand the discussion here.
Just combine the best of both "worlds"(as an airliner it is not really comfortable to do it the "classic" way and write every flight up - EXCEPT you are a green boy and need to have your first 1500 hours signed off by the Captain as PICUS - after that there is not really a need for discussion anymore), go for electronic, BUT do not rely on electronic alone and have it printed, signed, put it into a binder. A 5 Minute job every 6 months.
Joined: Jan 2000
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From: FL410
There is no requirement mandating how records are kept in most countries, but some authorities or airlines still in this day and age only accept paper copies of records.
Whether those records are handwritten or printed, as long as it is signed by a competent authority, makes little difference.
E.g.: some time ago the IAA would only accept paper records when transferring licences...
Whether those records are handwritten or printed, as long as it is signed by a competent authority, makes little difference.
E.g.: some time ago the IAA would only accept paper records when transferring licences...
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,563
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From: I wouldn't know.
After paper logbook nr 6 i couldn't be bothered anymore. Went to electronic and stayed there. For my last interview i just printed the last 50 pages, put them in a binder and they were more than happy with that, the simulator and interview were more important anyway.Since i do keep it on several devices with a backup on a network storage, it has a much higher safety in my view than a paper written one that might get destroyed easily.