A330 PFD Indiatication
Joined: Jun 2007
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From: Wanderlust
Whatever situation is. I'm just flying the aircraft and never think about protections. They don't exist for me. In any law. Protections are there if you personally fail.
If you were handling GPWS warnings and didn't know protections exist your actions will be less than optimum won't that compromise your escape?
If you were handling GPWS warnings and didn't know protections exist your actions will be less than optimum won't that compromise your escape?
Last edited by vilas; 27th March 2017 at 18:32.
Joined: Oct 2015
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From: 43N
"We must not allow mastery of the Flight Management System to be confused with airmanship." Understanding AF447 Bill Palmer
Palmer also goes into some detail about this thread topic, and insufficient pilot understanding of the Airbus FBW system, its possible degradations and those effects on aircraft handling.
Palmer also goes into some detail about this thread topic, and insufficient pilot understanding of the Airbus FBW system, its possible degradations and those effects on aircraft handling.
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 257
Likes: 4
From: ME
Whatever situation is. I'm just flying the aircraft and never think about protections. They don't exist for me. In any law. Protections are there if you personally fail.
If you were handling GPWS warnings and didn't know protections exist your actions will be less than optimum won't that compromise your escape?
If you were handling GPWS warnings and didn't know protections exist your actions will be less than optimum won't that compromise your escape?
I'm serious. No matter how many times I read this kind of stuff, most of it eveporates after few days or weeks. It's useless to try to always remember thousands of things that you don't practice in every day life. General system knowledge, SOP, limitations, memory items - that's what we need to remember. Other stuff - to be able to quickly locate and read, if you need. And yes, you have to have prior knowledge of that particular topic. If you are so gifted to keep it in your head for immediate use - fine. But there are few of pilots of this kind. Overwhelming majority are just regular pilots with average pilot's abilities.
Joined: Jun 2007
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From: Wanderlust
Probabilty of these two events happening at the same time is nearly zero.
Interesting viewpoint ! Statistically the possibility of an engine failure is one 30 years and dual engine flameouts none whatsoever. So if you have less than thirty years to retire you can safely delete from FCOM the EFATO, dual engine flameout, the entire OEI performance. Same with Dual hydraulic, EMER ELEC and most other problems. Wow! The FCOM can be carried in back pocket.
Interesting viewpoint ! Statistically the possibility of an engine failure is one 30 years and dual engine flameouts none whatsoever. So if you have less than thirty years to retire you can safely delete from FCOM the EFATO, dual engine flameout, the entire OEI performance. Same with Dual hydraulic, EMER ELEC and most other problems. Wow! The FCOM can be carried in back pocket.
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 327
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From: Kiwiland
My original comment was relating to ALT'N'1 etc... As there wasn't reference to control laws in OP.
Too many heros in aviation, thinking they remember all these details immaculately, when the average of us manage keeping the wee white box close to centre of PFD (wings level) makes all the limits irrelevant.
Don't panic, if I get close to any of the limits, at any stage, outside the sim, I will seriously consider handing my licence in!
I am sure there are a few who could recite FCOM verbatim whilst wrestling an inverted 330 but I have no desire to be one of them.
Too many heros in aviation, thinking they remember all these details immaculately, when the average of us manage keeping the wee white box close to centre of PFD (wings level) makes all the limits irrelevant.
Don't panic, if I get close to any of the limits, at any stage, outside the sim, I will seriously consider handing my licence in!
I am sure there are a few who could recite FCOM verbatim whilst wrestling an inverted 330 but I have no desire to be one of them.
Joined: Mar 2017
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From: London
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 257
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From: ME
Probabilty of these two events happening at the same time is nearly zero.
Interesting viewpoint ! Statistically the possibility of an engine failure is one 30 years and dual engine flameouts none whatsoever. So if you have less than thirty years to retire you can safely delete from FCOM the EFATO, dual engine flameout, the entire OEI performance. Same with Dual hydraulic, EMER ELEC and most other problems. Wow! The FCOM can be carried in back pocket.
Interesting viewpoint ! Statistically the possibility of an engine failure is one 30 years and dual engine flameouts none whatsoever. So if you have less than thirty years to retire you can safely delete from FCOM the EFATO, dual engine flameout, the entire OEI performance. Same with Dual hydraulic, EMER ELEC and most other problems. Wow! The FCOM can be carried in back pocket.
Anyway, events, that you mentioned are definitely regarded by Airbus as probable and we have real life examples of those. Nothing about simultaneous GPWS PULL UP event in ALT Law though. And, BTW, the only difference between ALT1 and ALT 2 in this sence is absence of gentle nose down signal in a very specific case of 2 ADR lost. We are talking about even smaller probabilty and a signal that you won't even notice in those circumstances. What you really have to know and watch is that protections are lost. You will be warned about it by ECAM and/or QRH and never pull full stick backwards. So, I don't understand what you are talking about. The loss of that gentle signal in the event that statistically impossible and never even mentioned in any Airbus publication?
It's up to you, of course. You are free to fill your memory with this kind of stuff if you have enough capacity and keep reading to ensure you don't forget. My concern is also very practical - the check airman on the oral or check ride that has similar view on the importance of things that he's taking from his head.
Last edited by Romasik; 28th March 2017 at 15:42.
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 257
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From: ME
Absolutely agree about more knowledge. One small remark: it has to be reasonable. If you go deep to the level of differences between ALT1 and ALT2 protections, the scope has virtually no limit. There are so many much more important things at higher levels and I'd rather spend my time and energy there.
Joined: Jun 2007
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From: Wanderlust
Statstics is like that. 99% means nothing to the 1% guy to whom it happens. What I quoted was from a book on jet engines. and I am not considering GPWS and alternate law together. Even in in normal law if you didn't know the protections then you'll be hesitant to pull full back stick. And why have GPWS? The aircraft shouldn't be in that situation according to you. But pilots have landed with gear up didn't they? So knowing the difference between having and not having GPWS helps.
