Flaps during transit A320

[Speedwinner]

Hi folks,

We do 97% of the takeoffs with flaps 1+f. So why don't we retract the flaps after landing to that position and leave it there. Would save one cycle. Saw this recently with Iraq airways and their a321 during transit.

Any hints in that?

Thanks

[Field In Sight]

It wasn't over 30 degrees was it?
The fcom tells you to leave the flaps out in that case.

[Lord Spandex Masher]

If you get out of the habit of setting flaps before take off what happens the next time you need something different to 1+f....

[mcdhu]

In my experience, refuellers won't touch you if flaps are anywhere but UP.

[Uplinker]

It used to be the case that flaps were left at 1+F when ground air temperature was 30 degrees centigrade or more, to avoid a mis-triggering of a wing air leak caution. The caution is surpressed when the flaps/slats are out. Our company still does this, but I've just checked the FCOM which says that wing air bleed leak does not trigger until 124 degrees, so maybe Airbus have changed the parameters?

The F part of 1+F - i.e. the flaps - hang quite low, which is a potential damage hazard to ground servicing vehicles - particularly fuel trucks - who are probably not expecting it, so leaving flaps out on the ramp is not an ideal situation.

Leaving flaps out at a particular setting is a safety hazard for mis-setting take off config too. Many incidents have been documented of crews setting the wrong take off config, because some crews insist on saying things like config 1+F is "standard" which is a recipe for mistakes.

[vilas]

Uplinker
The parameters are not changed and although wing leak is triggered above 124degrees the after landing procedure remains same i.e. above 30 degrees for keeping flap1 is not changed. Since it is triggered from slat, after shut down it is possible to retract the flap with yellow electrics though strictly speaking it is not SOP.

[Uplinker]

......... it is possible to retract the flap with yellow electrics though strictly speaking it is not SOP.

Yes, I have done that myself, but as you say this is not SOP and you get some funny looks from the other side of the cockpit! You also risk getting a slat or flap caution which doesn't clear.

[Cough]

Don't forget that to turn the IRU's off, needs flap 0 just to complicate the issue, so why wait until the gate!

[Metro man]

I think it only applies to the early A320s not the newer ones. It's quite common to see this at Middle Eastern airports for obvious reasons.

If you use the yellow electric pump or blue pump override, remember to switch them off afterwards as you will get problems with spoilers and various ECAM messages if you leave them on.

[goeasy]

The other option is to turn engine bleeds off - disarms the sensors. Great for quick get away once overheat warning triggered. Just leave bleeds off till after takeoff.

I had it in Erbil once, with flaps one! Only other option than waiting for 53deg OAT to subside. No thanks!

[FlightDetent]

FCOM wording [valid for MSNs 04xx 09xx 17xx 29xx 42xx 44xx]

FLAPS....................................................... ......................... RETRACT
Set the FLAPS lever to position 0.

• If the approach was made in icing conditions, or if the runway was contaminated with slush or snow, do not retract the flaps and slats until after engine shutdown and after the ground crew has confirmed that flaps and slats are clear of obstructing ice.
• On ground, hot weather conditions may cause overheating to be detected around the bleed ducts in the wings, resulting in “AIR L (R) WING LEAK” warnings. Such warnings may be avoided during transit by keeping the slats in Configuration 1 when the OAT is above 30 °C.
• To avoid damage on the RTLU (Rudder Travel Limit Unit) mechanical stop, the SLATS/FLAPS should be retracted before all ADIRS are set to OFF simultaneously.

[Uplinker]

Didn't know that about the RTLU FLightdetent - thanks!

Goeasy, interesting tip, but might not there be engine handling issues if the engine bleeds are off for takeoff, e.g. increased compressor stall risk etc?

[vivekh]

Here in India, we almost always have temperatures > 30C on the ramp, sometimes as high as the late 40s. Our company SOP doesn't ask us to keep CONF1 on the ground, nor have I personally ever encountered the AIR WING LEAK fault.

[Dan Winterland]

It depends whether your A320 has the updated temperature sensors or not.

[vilas]

I don't think there are any updated sensors as the 30C recommendation is applicable to all aircraft. Perhaps the company may be preferring occasional wing bleed warning by retracting flaps to the possibility of damage to the RTLU by leaving them at 1+F.

[Toruk Macto]

Operator I worked for did it to save cycles ( not Airbus or Boeing ) . They got told by manufacture that the flap tracks where never designed to have flaps out for extended periods , especially high winds , towing . So they reverted back to retracting them after every flight .

[TyroPicard]

On a point of order...
FCOM suggests Slats in CONF 1.. no mention of flaps!

[Stone_cold]

TP ,

They don't mention it ( Flaps ) because if one understand the system , then one should know what CONF1 gives on the ground .

[fc101]

If you get out of the habit of setting flaps before take off what happens the next time you need something different to 1+f....

The checklists, SOP etc should protect you from this, but then again...

Spanair Flight 5022 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[TyroPicard]

Stone Cold
One understands the system quite well, thank you. How well do you understand the hydraulic system and it's relationship with slats and flaps? Think about it....