AF447 wreckage found
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Some people here really think that those who paid for the search did so *to cover up* something? Wouldn't a cover-up have been easier by just saying that the wreckage was lost, end of story?
Edmund
Edmund
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Hi,
I know that is a very old event (the crash of the Caravelle Ajaccio - Nice) ... but what follow is not to shut up the feeling of conspirations when French state and BEA are mixed in a investigation.
Sorry for those who don't understand french .. and also apologise for the disgression ............
Video (TF1 news - main french TV media)
L'enquête du 20h : le secret d'Etat de la Caravelle - Vidéo du journal televise : Le journal de 20h - TF1
Some people here really think that those who paid for the search did so *to cover up* something? Wouldn't a cover-up have been easier by just saying that the wreckage was lost, end of story?
Edmund
Edmund
Sorry for those who don't understand french .. and also apologise for the disgression ............
Video (TF1 news - main french TV media)
L'enquête du 20h : le secret d'Etat de la Caravelle - Vidéo du journal televise : Le journal de 20h - TF1
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jcjeant,
I do , fortunately , understand French, and thank you for that link.
When we are asked, why conspiracy theories?
why you don't trust the French (or let's be honest ANY govt) to tell the truth?
Et voila !
Not forgetting ( geographically very close) the Itavia DC9, apparently, also the victim of a (French? if I remember the last hypotheses) missile.
Sh1t happens Eh? ( C'est la merde, Non? )
Edited to say, if you don't like conspiracy theories, read "Itavia 870" on wikipedia & ignore, if you wish to continue life as an ostrich.
I do , fortunately , understand French, and thank you for that link.
When we are asked, why conspiracy theories?
why you don't trust the French (or let's be honest ANY govt) to tell the truth?
Et voila !
Not forgetting ( geographically very close) the Itavia DC9, apparently, also the victim of a (French? if I remember the last hypotheses) missile.
Sh1t happens Eh? ( C'est la merde, Non? )
Edited to say, if you don't like conspiracy theories, read "Itavia 870" on wikipedia & ignore, if you wish to continue life as an ostrich.
Last edited by captplaystation; 11th May 2011 at 18:41.
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Those were the 70s and a famous French sentence resumed everything : "la raison d'etat" . You were told and educated in those days that you needed to protect the State, and the State would protect you.
If someone screwed up big in those days, evidence was removed and tainted to fit a "rosier" version exonerating the State.
Fortunately the French people are not very good at keeping secrets or go quiet for years. Justice is not always "aux ordres" and years later generally we get the truth.
For the Nantes collision in 1973 , it took 10 years , for the Caravelle near l' Ile du levant in 1978 it may still take a few more years, ( most probably waiting for a certain ex-minster to die ).
Those times are gone fortunately, and I sincerely do not think this will apply to the 447 inquiry.
If someone screwed up big in those days, evidence was removed and tainted to fit a "rosier" version exonerating the State.
Fortunately the French people are not very good at keeping secrets or go quiet for years. Justice is not always "aux ordres" and years later generally we get the truth.
For the Nantes collision in 1973 , it took 10 years , for the Caravelle near l' Ile du levant in 1978 it may still take a few more years, ( most probably waiting for a certain ex-minster to die ).
Those times are gone fortunately, and I sincerely do not think this will apply to the 447 inquiry.
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why you don't trust the French
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Hi,
And it was again the 11/05/2011 on the TF1 main stream (the families ask the open of a new investigation and trial) at 11.10 min in video:
Le 20 heures du 11 mai 2011 - Vidéo du journal televise : Le journal de 20h - TF1
Le Ministre d'Etat
And it was again the 11/05/2011 on the TF1 main stream (the families ask the open of a new investigation and trial) at 11.10 min in video:
Le 20 heures du 11 mai 2011 - Vidéo du journal televise : Le journal de 20h - TF1
( most probably waiting for a certain ex-minster to die )
Last edited by jcjeant; 11th May 2011 at 23:12. Reason: Link added
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Thank you Lemurian for your kind personal comments. Looking at your past posts you have often felt that you needed to comment on other posters albiet not realising who any actually are, and I am sure we appreciate this.
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Interesting detailed map of the AF447 debris field here:
AF447: Map of the debris field - Flight International
AF447: Map of the debris field - Flight International
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Given the repeated tendency of commercial pilots eg. Korean 007 or Iran AIr 655 to to aggressively pursue missiles and insist on colliding with them, it is understandable that military authorities in every country will insist on short and clear investigations when they serve their political masters 
I don't think there has ever been such a thing as an honest investigation after a missile shootdown of a civilian airliner, nor can one be expected. The investigation after the Iran Air 655 flight was probably the best one can hope for, and the facts, or at least a fairly plausible version of the facts slowly emerged after a long time and retirement of all concerned.
Edmund
I don't think there has ever been such a thing as an honest investigation after a missile shootdown of a civilian airliner, nor can one be expected. The investigation after the Iran Air 655 flight was probably the best one can hope for, and the facts, or at least a fairly plausible version of the facts slowly emerged after a long time and retirement of all concerned.
Edmund
Last edited by edmundronald; 13th May 2011 at 14:21.
What has this to do with AF447, edmund? Or are you referring to the Italian incident? 
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Lonewolf,
It has to do with french accident reports - if the military are involved the reports will be trash - but that appears to be the case in every country on the earth.
I live in France, and I think the the AF 447 report will be clean, since it is locally visible that extraordinary measures are being taken in order to get hold of some facts. At the very least, the facts will be used to make future flights safer.
I do remember that in the past even the FAA has occasionnally been overly cooperative with the aircraft industry, to the extent sometimes of not explicitly enforcing safety-related design changes. The unsavory story of the well-understood, recurring, and ultimately deadly DC10 cargo door issues is related on Wikipedia.
The French are not known for understatement, which is why one of the final paragraphs of the Ermenonville report (p50) is a striking indictment:
The commission recommends that the mandatory procedure of airworthiness directives, whatever the financial repercussions, should be selected whenever safety could be at serious risk.
Of course it is quite possible that in the case of the Pitot probes they should have remembered this sentence themselves
Edmund
It has to do with french accident reports - if the military are involved the reports will be trash - but that appears to be the case in every country on the earth.
I live in France, and I think the the AF 447 report will be clean, since it is locally visible that extraordinary measures are being taken in order to get hold of some facts. At the very least, the facts will be used to make future flights safer.
I do remember that in the past even the FAA has occasionnally been overly cooperative with the aircraft industry, to the extent sometimes of not explicitly enforcing safety-related design changes. The unsavory story of the well-understood, recurring, and ultimately deadly DC10 cargo door issues is related on Wikipedia.
The French are not known for understatement, which is why one of the final paragraphs of the Ermenonville report (p50) is a striking indictment:
The commission recommends that the mandatory procedure of airworthiness directives, whatever the financial repercussions, should be selected whenever safety could be at serious risk.
Edmund
Last edited by edmundronald; 13th May 2011 at 23:38.
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No inflight break-up mentioned by one writer
No inflight break-up? Hmmmmm what about that nasty little
vertical stab then? Remember turbulence and New York plus the possibility of a lesser experienced crew pressing on through a storm system (captain could have been in his sleeping pit?)
Questions questions questions.
Let's see what the French authorities come up with.
vertical stab then? Remember turbulence and New York plus the possibility of a lesser experienced crew pressing on through a storm system (captain could have been in his sleeping pit?)
Questions questions questions.
Let's see what the French authorities come up with.
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YW, I think you are right that the captain wasn't in the cockpit, but taking his rest period. Can someone tell us again what experience the two FO's in the cockpit had if the captain was taking his break? If it was a pitot static failure it would take a damn good pilot to get through that zone using what he had available. Maybe going to GPS ground speed for a while until they sorted it out. I only did one trip to Sao Paulo, Brazil and that convinced me I didn't want to do any more. You leave your cockpit to have no control for a couple hours would require a lot of confidence in your crew. I had confidence in them but still didn't like it. Only did it once so am not an authority on the subject.
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10,988h, on type 1,747 (1,093 A330, 654 A340)
16 rotations South America sector
1st FO:
6,547h, on type 4,479 (1,882 A330, 2,597 A340)
39 rotations South America sector
"This pilot’s licences allowed him to perform the duties of replacement pilot in place of the captain."[1]
2nd FO:
2,936h, on type 807 (216 A330, 591 A340)
5 rotations South America sector
[1] "The airline’s procedures specify that to be a replacement duty pilot, a crew member must have the same rating as the crew member that he or she is replacing and, in addition, during the captain’s rest period, a pilot with the same license as the captain must be at the controls."
Source: 1st interim report, p. 14-16
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Bubber 44, you have the option of chosing your break..............wisely if you know you're heading into a dungstorm.
I've been crossing zillions of times both as F/O and Captain. My elders were always at the control to cross this particular spot and I am doing just the same.
Some I trust and some others I'd be a lot happier knowing they're working in a diner.
If you're in charge, you might as well be in your seat knowing where the tricky spots are.
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IIRC there was a report on the BBC website (I only saw it as part of an RSS feed) that said they wouldn't announce any findings until approx 2012.
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This is from CBS: The seven memory cards in each data recorder will be extracted, cleaned, dried and tested to see if they still work. If so data will be copied onto BEA's computers."If the card is in good shape it can be read in a couple hours," Menez said. If damaged, it is impossible to say how long it might take to try to cull information from it, he added.The officials said BEA will provide an update on Monday.