AF447 wreckage found

[captplaystation]

Even more curious is why there are no CCTV images of the aircraft that "hit the pentagon", but that, and and a whole load of other Q's,could fill several threads.

Fantastic news that they have found the CVR, if it is readable I suspect it will be of even more value than the FDR. I could imagine Airboos & Air Chance are feeling a little anxious at this moment, as at least one of them is likely to come out smelling of something other than roses.

[Globaliser]

Originally Posted by AlexanderH

... why then have the black boxes from the aircraft that smashed into the twin towers not been found and never will be found?

What would have been the point of sifting minutely through millions of tons of rubble to find two small pieces of equipment that were as likely as not to have been totally useless and unreadable? How much would it have cost, and how long would it have taken? And what would the searchers have had to do about all the other stuff they would come across while they were doing it, including a lot of asbestos and a lot of body parts? What would have been the sense in even trying it?

It's not exactly as if there was any mystery about why those aircraft flew into the World Trade Center.

[KBPsen]

Originally Posted by AlexanderH

there are many instances where black boxes have been well able to withstand excess heat for many days.

Name these "many instances".

[ATC Watcher]

I could imagine Airboos & Air Chance are feeling a little anxious at this moment, as at least one of them is likely to come out smelling of something other than roses.

And if it is the case then the new BEA head would be in his real first test. Would he bend l like his predecessor(s) or would he stand firm behind his staff and publish what must be published ?

The most recent report under the new management I read from the BEA ( the fatal accident of the local Aerobatic world champion ) would indicate that the human aspects reserach was extremely well done and the published conclusions bold and accurate. So I am hopeful, although taking on a French air Force Hero is a bit easier than the 2 you mentioned.

[Jazz Hands]

However, is the pressure 4000 metres below sea level well in excess of the crushing weight of the world trade centre towers? Also, there are many instances where black boxes have been well able to withstand excess heat for many days.

Ballpark figures, but a flight recorder typically is designed to withstand intense fire (1,000C) for about 30min and lower-temperature (250C) for about 10 hours. Plus pressure immersion to twice the depth of AF447.

There are few (if any) cases of aircraft fires burning anywhere near those durations, making the intense WTC fire something of an exception.

[NWA SLF]

It is my feeling that Air France, Airbus, and BEA have spent so much money in an attempt to find the recorders and the wreckage in order to determine the root cause of the accident in order to make all airplanes safer in the future. Will recovery of the root cause open up something like the Applegate memorandum? For those who don't remember, during the trial regarding the first wide body crash with massive loss of life, this memorandum from an executive of Convair, manufacturer of the DC-10 fuselage, came to light:

“My only criticism of Douglas in this regard is that once this inherent weakness was demonstrated by the July 1970 test failure, they did not take immediate steps to correct it. It seems to me inevitable that, in the twenty years ahead of us, DC-10 cargo doors will come open and I would expect this to usually result in the loss of the airplane. This fundamental failure mode has been discussed in the past and is being discussed again in the bowels of both the Douglas and Convair organizations. It appears, however, that Douglas is waiting and hoping for government direction or regulations in the hope of passing costs on to us or their customers.”
An executive writing a memo predicting the accident in the exact way it would happen - could there actually be such a "smoking gun" in the archives of the manufacturer, any of the suppliers, or the airline? I only hope we don't find that something happened to the aircraft early in the event that cut off data delivery to the recorders that hampers finding the root cause of the accident. Walkingthe site of the TK 981 flight crash site near Senlis, France, many times and adding parts of the aircraft I discovered to the collection that is always surrounding the memorial never made me reluctant to fly in DC-10s. I actually felt safer knowing the aircraft in which I was flying was safer due to findings and improvements as the result of its mishaps. Having made over 100 trans-Atlantic crossings in DC-10s before NWA switching, then dozens of those same transits in A-330s before I retired, I look forward to Airbus/Air France/BEA being able to find enough information to make any further transits safer. Already we have the improved procedures the flight crew should follow if they see questionable data, plus the hardware changes. Instead of coverups and downsides, I look at the efforts being put out as making air travel safer for us all.

[ATC Watcher]

NWA SLF : very well said
I also sincerely hope that the new BEA management will differ from what we were used to in the past and that truly the aim is , as you rightly said, to make air travel safer as a result.

[cwatters]

Britfrog wrote:

..if as I believe, the a/c broke up in the air, the ramifications to airbus and also the french government are enormous. Do they admit that 561 a/c can be unsafe in high turbulence?

Why not? Can all other other aircraft survive unlimited turbulence and never need to divert around weather? I don't think so.

[skidbuggy]

For those interested:

YouTube - RECUPERATION BOITES NOIRES VOL AF447

[ChristiaanJ]

skidbuggy,
Nice one.
Also explains where some of the earlier 'photos' came from, with everybody taking photos (and movies) of the screens.
Odd that Phoenix did not have enough 'stuff' at hand to get instant 'video caps' (snapshots) from either the incoming video or the video recordings - look at the discussions about the recorder module P/N and S/N.

And for the conspiracy freaks... note it's the "Gerdarmerie" handling the units, with the BEA team advising on the 'how-to' but otherwise staying completely 'hands-off'.

[vovachan]

So what happens next are they going to send the black boxes back to mainland? how? Or they are going to sit on the ship until they are done with the search.

[doyll]

"The BEA reports that a French navy patrol boat will be dispatched to pick both elements up from the Ile de Sein vessel that is conducting the search for debris of the Airbus A330-200...."

AF447 Cockpit Voice Recorder Recovered | AVIATION WEEK

[cats_five]

Originally Posted by ChristiaanJ

And for the conspiracy freaks... note it's the "Gerdarmerie" handling the units, with the BEA team advising on the 'how-to' but otherwise staying completely 'hands-off'.

The conspiracy freaks will say it's BEA personel dressed as gendermarie.

[dfish]

NY Times article

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/08/ma...ne-t.html?_r=1

[WojtekSz]

@dfish:
thanks for that link - excellent piece of investigative jurnalism

[TwoOneFour]

The conspiracy freaks will say it's BEA personel dressed as gendermarie

Best they don't see this then, they'll say the whole aircraft is in disguise

Why is the AF447 search using our A321 cutaway? - Flight International

[blind pew]

dfish - very good article thanks
Injuries appear very similar to the Trident crash which came down in a deep stall.

[funfly]

dfish - this article must be the best at this time, sensitively written and apparently well researched. there seems to be very little bias there as well.

[Lemurian]

thanks for that link - excellent piece of investigative jurnalism

very good article thanks
Injuries appear very similar to the Trident crash which came down in a deep stall.

his article must be the best at this time, sensitively written and apparently well researched. there seems to be very little bias there as well.

I'd really like to know what makes that article *excellent*, *best*, *sensitive* (??????????) and *well researched*.

Really. because I haven't found one redeemeing piece of intellectual honesty in it... Just a search for a scoop at any price.
But I'm ready to be convinced, as I think it is a piece of self-serving gutter garbage, and I wonder why you are members of this forum : having seen for two years the investigative work done by the pros on this thread and the results -incomplete by sheer intellectual honesty- achieved by pooling to-gether multiple fields of interests and specialities, achievements that are nothing short of impressive...
A philosopher of the XIX th century would say again :"The more I see people, the more I love my dog ".
I feel the same.

[DouglasFlyer]

Then - I think - you're in the wrong forum.

Here's the link for you:

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