AF447 wreckage found
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Hi,
Is not really a diversion as the researches are not only a technical challenge but are also sometime (in adverse situation)a financial challenge.
You're absolutely right ... these are recommendations, not laws
But the French laws are not recommendations
We have here an accident at work (personnel aboard the aircraft is linked to Air France by an employment contract governed by French law)
The French state in case of accident .. has the right to request any documents or physical evidence to conduct an investigation to determine whether the laws concerning the activity of the company .. the tools used by the employees .. hygiene ... rest time .. and more .. have been met.
So the company has to provide (to the extent possible and in good faith) the documents .. etc .. required for the survey
Current research and results show that it was "in the extent of opportunities"
And until proven otherwise Air France has money ..
Air France is not yet declared a bankrupt company ... which would then be considered as an act of God .. and could then induce the French state to intervene financially if necessary.
End of "disgression"
Is not really a diversion as the researches are not only a technical challenge but are also sometime (in adverse situation)a financial challenge.
This properly resides in ICAO annex 13, but since those are recommendations and not law, some variations occur (mostly revolving around deep pockets vs holes in pockets)
But the French laws are not recommendations
We have here an accident at work (personnel aboard the aircraft is linked to Air France by an employment contract governed by French law)
The French state in case of accident .. has the right to request any documents or physical evidence to conduct an investigation to determine whether the laws concerning the activity of the company .. the tools used by the employees .. hygiene ... rest time .. and more .. have been met.
So the company has to provide (to the extent possible and in good faith) the documents .. etc .. required for the survey
Current research and results show that it was "in the extent of opportunities"
And until proven otherwise Air France has money ..
Air France is not yet declared a bankrupt company ... which would then be considered as an act of God .. and could then induce the French state to intervene financially if necessary.
End of "disgression"
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Sub finds container of Air France recorder, but no data | Boeing and Aerospace News - seattlepi.com
Photos at link -
Sub finds container of Air France recorder, but no data
Searchers have found the container for the flight data recorder of Air France flight 447 but not the memory unit that contains the data, French investigators reported Wednesday.
Earlier this month, searchers found major wreckage from the Airbus A330, which crashed on its way between Rio de Janeiro and Paris on June 1, 2009, killing all 228 people aboard.
The first, 12-hour dive by the Remora 6000 remote submarine found the chassis of Flight Data Recorder, France’s air accident investigation agency, the Bureau d’Enquêtes et d’Analyses, said Wednesday. “The searches are continuing. A second dive by the Remora 6000 began this morning.”
Searchers have not yet found any part of the cockpit voice recorder.
Photos at link -
Sub finds container of Air France recorder, but no data
Searchers have found the container for the flight data recorder of Air France flight 447 but not the memory unit that contains the data, French investigators reported Wednesday.
Earlier this month, searchers found major wreckage from the Airbus A330, which crashed on its way between Rio de Janeiro and Paris on June 1, 2009, killing all 228 people aboard.
The first, 12-hour dive by the Remora 6000 remote submarine found the chassis of Flight Data Recorder, France’s air accident investigation agency, the Bureau d’Enquêtes et d’Analyses, said Wednesday. “The searches are continuing. A second dive by the Remora 6000 began this morning.”
Searchers have not yet found any part of the cockpit voice recorder.
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How come that in various news media I sense a rhetoric about the chances of finding the boxes intact being low - with different socalled official statements to build up a public belief that no real facts will ever be available because the boxes were never found or if found they would be so badly damaged that it was not possible to extract any valid data? (data which could indirectly put the political, legal and financial interests of airbus and air france in jeopardy?)
Last edited by iflyboeing747; 28th Apr 2011 at 09:00.
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Without playing to any conspiracy theory, from the picture of the box it seems split wide open. Considering all the theories till date and the condition of the wreckage found in initial dates it seems to point that the aircraft landed intact and on its belly with little forward speed. What would cause the box to split open in such a manner??? Does that mean all theories to date could be incorrect?
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theories are just that - and guesswork is the same - just that..
my feeling is that this is just what the involved parties want officially - again - just my own guesswork..
only the people actually having the data in their possession will know the real facts and then it is up to them what they want to disclose to the public - to suit their agenda..
I sincerely want to believe we will get the real facts - in public - but apparently it has happened through the history of accidents that not all facts were disclosed..
my feeling is that this is just what the involved parties want officially - again - just my own guesswork..
only the people actually having the data in their possession will know the real facts and then it is up to them what they want to disclose to the public - to suit their agenda..
I sincerely want to believe we will get the real facts - in public - but apparently it has happened through the history of accidents that not all facts were disclosed..
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
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(Without posting yet another image of the chassis of which we have several identical!) where do you see "from the picture of the box it seems split wide open"?
It is a well known phenomenon that when confronted with unfamiliar stimuli humans tend to interpret from experience. i.e. we see what we expect to see.
If you want to see a conspiracy you create one (in your own mind.)
If you want to see a conspiracy you create one (in your own mind.)
Last edited by beardy; 28th Apr 2011 at 08:34.
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Before the Airbus conspiracies start getting out of hand 
Part of CVR recovered from Ethiopian 737 crash site
Part of CVR recovered from Ethiopian 737 crash site
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Am I missing something here? The supposed FDR on the sea bed appears to be a different type to the new unit shown in the newspaper article. This isn't immediately obvious as the newspaper picture cuts off the end of the new unit. A complete unit is shown below. Compare the overall length of the 'boxes' of both units. Perhaps someone more current with Air Transport Racking sizes can expand on this. Curious.
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interesting photo - is the sand at the front left-hand part going all the way up to the edge of the top-plate (covering the left-hand part of the box under it) - or are we looking at an open space under the left hand part of that top-plate..?
ANENGINEER said:
The thing is, if that is what you expect in these circumstances, then that is what you will see. Which of course is almost the same as prejudging. This mechanism has served humans very well in the course of evolution, but is not an appropriate method of accident investigation.
Surely no-one is suggesting that Air France & Airbus might be in cahoots to somehow delete incriminating evidence from recorders ?
<cough>Habsheim<cough>
<cough>Habsheim<cough>
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Press release from the UK AAIB states that the UK representative will take part in the analysis of voice and data recorders. I presume other representatives from other authorities will be present, so just not a case of Airbus or French-only investigators being present?
Air Accidents Investigation: Press Release - Air France 447 - Wreckage recovery operations
Air Accidents Investigation: Press Release - Air France 447 - Wreckage recovery operations
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It's already understood that conspiracy theorists will not be silenced by facts, because myth and paranoia is food for the intellectually challenged.
Too many people involved in this lengthy search, recovery, analysis of wreckage would make it very difficult to keep everyone "on the same page" in any attempt of suppressing findings and facts as to the probable cause of the crash.
Too many people involved in this lengthy search, recovery, analysis of wreckage would make it very difficult to keep everyone "on the same page" in any attempt of suppressing findings and facts as to the probable cause of the crash.
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@Glueball
Couldn't agree more. Like the people demanding to see Obama's birth certificate. He shows them and of course "it's a fake"...
Beauty about conspiracy theories is that you can't prove nor disprove them!
Couldn't agree more. Like the people demanding to see Obama's birth certificate. He shows them and of course "it's a fake"...
Beauty about conspiracy theories is that you can't prove nor disprove them!
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It seems that F-GZCP should have been equipped with two dual purpose recorders, one forward and one aft. Was this recommendation ever made law?
The accident aircraft was an Airbus A330-203, with manufacturer serial number 660, registered as "F-GZCP". This airliner first flew on 25 February 2005.
The U.S. NTSB and TSB of Canada issued safety recommendations on March 9, 1999, to require:
By January 1, 2003, all newly manufactured airplanes required to carry both a CVR and FDR be fitted with two combined voice and data recorders, one recorder located as close to the cockpit as practical and the other as far aft as practical.
The accident aircraft was an Airbus A330-203, with manufacturer serial number 660, registered as "F-GZCP". This airliner first flew on 25 February 2005.
The U.S. NTSB and TSB of Canada issued safety recommendations on March 9, 1999, to require:
By January 1, 2003, all newly manufactured airplanes required to carry both a CVR and FDR be fitted with two combined voice and data recorders, one recorder located as close to the cockpit as practical and the other as far aft as practical.
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i must say ` well done` to the french navy , especially the submarine crew - trying to find a needle in a haystack , using equipment `out of spec` , not properly knowing the water conditions beneath them - and thales trying to push the sonar even further shows a dedication to the misison - to get `something` shows for pretty good equipment.
and likely that know how will be used for further finetuning`
and likely that know how will be used for further finetuning`
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i must say ` well done` to the french navy , especially the submarine crew - trying to find a needle in a haystack , using equipment `out of spec` , not properly knowing the water conditions beneath them - and thales trying to push the sonar even further shows a dedication to the misison - to get `something` shows for pretty good equipment.
and likely that know how will be used for further finetuning`
and likely that know how will be used for further finetuning`
This stage of recovery is on a French commercial ship and using Remora ROV(s) provided by (and I guess operated by) Phoenix International
The Sonar and black and white photos are from the Remus. The FDR chassis pictures in colour would be from the Remora.