Concorde question
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Thanks a lot Brit312, at least my memory is not TOTAL garbage. 
mmmmm... yep New York CAN get a tad chilly in the winter 
Regard Brit
Dude
However the trip was very popular with the crews as it gave us a feel of the sun's warmth, which is hard to come by in New York in the winter
Regard Brit
Dude
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Brit312
I remember; wouldn't it have been great if we'd had cabotage rights between IAD and MIA? The attraction of flying down in the winter from a very chilly Washington to Miami in less than one and a half hours would I'm sure been very attractive for our American friends.
Dude
Now you might ask if we did not have 100 passengers, then how many did we have between IAD and MIA well it is a secret, but I have to say we were normally lighty loaded.
Dude
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The great race!
Hy guys,
I think this is really interesting for all of you!
From magazine "Airliner World":
- In June 1974 Air France pitted Concorde against the B747 in a direct race. The B747 departed Orly Airport in the French capital Paris at 08:22 on the morning of June 17 bound for Boston. At the same time one of the airline's Concorde fleet took off from Boston's Logan Airport bound for Paris. When Concorde passed the B747, albeit at twice the altitude and flying in the opposite direction, it had already covered 2400 miles (3862km), the B747 barely covering 600miles(966km). The Concorde landed at Paris, spent an hour on the ground while it was refuelled, and took off for its return flight to Boston, where it arrived eleven minutes before the B747. -
Those were the times!
I think this is really interesting for all of you!
From magazine "Airliner World":
- In June 1974 Air France pitted Concorde against the B747 in a direct race. The B747 departed Orly Airport in the French capital Paris at 08:22 on the morning of June 17 bound for Boston. At the same time one of the airline's Concorde fleet took off from Boston's Logan Airport bound for Paris. When Concorde passed the B747, albeit at twice the altitude and flying in the opposite direction, it had already covered 2400 miles (3862km), the B747 barely covering 600miles(966km). The Concorde landed at Paris, spent an hour on the ground while it was refuelled, and took off for its return flight to Boston, where it arrived eleven minutes before the B747. -
Those were the times!
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Considering the era in which the Concorde was produced I am curious as to why there was no APU fitted. It would seem to have been quite an inconvenience at times.
Was there ever any consideration given to fitting one and was the decision against the installation solely a weight issue ?
Was there ever any consideration given to fitting one and was the decision against the installation solely a weight issue ?
The subject was dealt with in some depth, and in the course of the discussion is was described how the two preproduction and the first two production aircraft were equipped with an MEPU (monopropellant emergency power generator).
I've only just found this photo again... it's the MEPU of Delta Golf (202 - G-BBDG).
The photo was taken after 'DG was moved to the Brooklands museum, but before the tail cone was put back into place.
CJ
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bio161
Hi, I think that they are refereing to the French development aircraft 102 F-WTSA, I remember the event really well, the aircraft was even delayed on the ground in Paris while one of the 'passengers' (An American press reporter) went shopping in the terminal building. In spite of the delay Concorde still won the 'race' with ease. 
Dude
- In June 1974 Air France pitted Concorde against the B747 in a direct race. The
Dude
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The blue area at the front is the MEPU firewall. My main memories of the MEPU on Concorde (Apart from the fact that it was always breaking down)was the awful STINK of the Hydrazine insode the tailcone. (Made your eyes water). Good photo though.
Dude
Dude
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Let's not stop!
Did I understand correctly? This space where the MEPU used to be installed is empty space on production aircraft?
Since DG had a MEPU, that means other production aircraft could have one installed?
Were the charter flights much different from the scheduled ones?
I've seen the 1999 Around the World video, and they took some engineers aboard (They should've taken M2Dude with them, LOL). Did they make the flight-planning on each stop or everything came from the mothership @ London?
Did I understand correctly? This space where the MEPU used to be installed is empty space on production aircraft?
Since DG had a MEPU, that means other production aircraft could have one installed?
Were the charter flights much different from the scheduled ones?
I've seen the 1999 Around the World video, and they took some engineers aboard (They should've taken M2Dude with them, LOL). Did they make the flight-planning on each stop or everything came from the mothership @ London?
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I don't think you'll be finding hydrazine on a pax-carrying aircraft anytime soon! And it wasn't an APU as such, but a source of power for non-normals potentially found in the flight test programme. M2D and ChristiaanJwill know far more.
The charter flights were different insofar as they often went to non-BA stations, so there was a bit more donkeywork to be done to get all the paperwork organised, but nothing a regular charter pilot won't be used to. Generally one would get a fuel plan/flight plan filed from Ops at LHR, but apart from LHR/JFK/BGI/IAD (and presumably MIA/BAH/SIN in earlier days) we produced our own loadsheet. I only once had to produce a fuel plan/route plan from scratch and that was at Sondrestrom (as it was) with a dodgy fax line. You'd have to file a flight plan occasionally.
We carried a 'PR' on most of them - a line pilot or FE - to carry out a running PA and do general liaison. They were volunteered to do the loadsheet.
The atmosphere on board was very different - these were pleasure flights and so were the opposite of the JFK business run. Landlady may be able to elaborate on this.
The round-the-worlds were just a big charter in this respect. As you note we carried a 'flying spanner', since Concorde-qualified LAEs are hard to come by downroute. It looked like a great job on paper, but they were often at the airport for many hours before or after the sectors carrying out routine maintenance or dealing with snags.
I enjoyed the charters a lot - everyone was geared up for a good time and in general the flight had something different for us, too: Whether a lightweight departure on a 'round-the-bay', squeezing into a short runway (e.g. Bournemouth), visiting SFJ or Rovaniemi, or setting off around the world, predominantly to non-BA destinations. My favourites, though, were the RTBs out of Filton - EVERYONE was either connected to Conc development or manufacture, or was related to someone who was. Fantastic atmosphere. Shame the runway wasn't a bit longer........
The charter flights were different insofar as they often went to non-BA stations, so there was a bit more donkeywork to be done to get all the paperwork organised, but nothing a regular charter pilot won't be used to. Generally one would get a fuel plan/flight plan filed from Ops at LHR, but apart from LHR/JFK/BGI/IAD (and presumably MIA/BAH/SIN in earlier days) we produced our own loadsheet. I only once had to produce a fuel plan/route plan from scratch and that was at Sondrestrom (as it was) with a dodgy fax line. You'd have to file a flight plan occasionally.
We carried a 'PR' on most of them - a line pilot or FE - to carry out a running PA and do general liaison. They were volunteered to do the loadsheet.
The atmosphere on board was very different - these were pleasure flights and so were the opposite of the JFK business run. Landlady may be able to elaborate on this.
The round-the-worlds were just a big charter in this respect. As you note we carried a 'flying spanner', since Concorde-qualified LAEs are hard to come by downroute. It looked like a great job on paper, but they were often at the airport for many hours before or after the sectors carrying out routine maintenance or dealing with snags.
I enjoyed the charters a lot - everyone was geared up for a good time and in general the flight had something different for us, too: Whether a lightweight departure on a 'round-the-bay', squeezing into a short runway (e.g. Bournemouth), visiting SFJ or Rovaniemi, or setting off around the world, predominantly to non-BA destinations. My favourites, though, were the RTBs out of Filton - EVERYONE was either connected to Conc development or manufacture, or was related to someone who was. Fantastic atmosphere. Shame the runway wasn't a bit longer........
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BlueConcorde
As far as the MEPU went, yes there was just mainly empty space inside the tailcone, Aside from the tail wheel assembly there was just the power supply for the tail beacon as well as the fuel vent and jettison pipes. (On the forward bulkhead there were pumps and valves for tank 11). Having this great empty void did create problems in the early days of airline operation; there were some internal structural failures inside the tailcone (a low stressed area, so it was never serious). These failures were quickly attributed to acoustic fatigue inside the tailcone, due to resonance with engine and aerodynamic noise. This never occurred during any of the development flying; the prototypes and aircraft 1010 had a far smaller tailcone anyway, and aircraft 102, 201 and 202 had the bulk of the MEPU assembly complete with Hydrazine tank to fill up most of the void. The fix to the cracking problems was both very simple and quick to implement, and it never became a big deal. The MEPU, as has been mentioned a few times previous, was both useless and unsafe as far as a commercial aircraft goes; being replaced by a ram air turbine.
It's funny, but this is how this wonderful thread started over one month ago by stilton , I for one am so glad that it has both progressed and diversified the way that it has.
As far as charters go I'll leave it up to EXWOK or one of the other guys to answer, as far as flight planning goes. Thanks for your comments BlueConcorde, they always took a ground engineer on RTW charters, and although I never had the pleasure of directly participating in one (although I was on the end of a phone several times when problems occurred en-route)I WAS due to go in 2000, but tragic events in Paris caused that charter to be cancelled. I was however lucky enough to participate in various other charters, my most memorable one was in October 1991, when the World Bank chartered Concorde to Bangkok. The most amazing thing about RTW charters (or earth orbiters, as I would call them) was that the aircraft often returned to London with only a very small handfull of minor defects. The thing about Concorde was the more that she flew, the happier she was, and less likely to catch a cold.
PS. oops, EXWOK is already 'there'
Dude
As far as the MEPU went, yes there was just mainly empty space inside the tailcone, Aside from the tail wheel assembly there was just the power supply for the tail beacon as well as the fuel vent and jettison pipes. (On the forward bulkhead there were pumps and valves for tank 11). Having this great empty void did create problems in the early days of airline operation; there were some internal structural failures inside the tailcone (a low stressed area, so it was never serious). These failures were quickly attributed to acoustic fatigue inside the tailcone, due to resonance with engine and aerodynamic noise. This never occurred during any of the development flying; the prototypes and aircraft 1010 had a far smaller tailcone anyway, and aircraft 102, 201 and 202 had the bulk of the MEPU assembly complete with Hydrazine tank to fill up most of the void. The fix to the cracking problems was both very simple and quick to implement, and it never became a big deal. The MEPU, as has been mentioned a few times previous, was both useless and unsafe as far as a commercial aircraft goes; being replaced by a ram air turbine.
It's funny, but this is how this wonderful thread started over one month ago by stilton , I for one am so glad that it has both progressed and diversified the way that it has.
As far as charters go I'll leave it up to EXWOK or one of the other guys to answer, as far as flight planning goes. Thanks for your comments BlueConcorde, they always took a ground engineer on RTW charters, and although I never had the pleasure of directly participating in one (although I was on the end of a phone several times when problems occurred en-route)I WAS due to go in 2000, but tragic events in Paris caused that charter to be cancelled. I was however lucky enough to participate in various other charters, my most memorable one was in October 1991, when the World Bank chartered Concorde to Bangkok. The most amazing thing about RTW charters (or earth orbiters, as I would call them) was that the aircraft often returned to London with only a very small handfull of minor defects. The thing about Concorde was the more that she flew, the happier she was, and less likely to catch a cold.
PS. oops, EXWOK is already 'there'
Dude
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Such is the way with machinery.
The thing about Concorde was the more that she flew, the happier she was, and less likely to catch a cold.
Indeed, the ones that are worked way beyond what is 'reasonable' - and some are truly 'hammered'
- tend to break down more than the 'hard worked'. At the other end of the scale, the lightly or intermittently used systems definitely break down more than the 'hard worked' norm. And don't leave a system unused for any length of time 
- a week or so will do it - and don't even think about turning it off at the A1 breaker!
While we are at it, there is also the 'sympathetic brain waves' syndrome, a theory a much missed, late engineer friend of mine in the past had.
As the amount of current required to consider a junction 'switched' went down and down, the closer it got to the amount of current/ion exchange necessary to 'fire' brain synapses. Stay with me - I more than half believed this! 
Neil theorised that as the users - radiographers - got more stressed by patients, doctors and life in general, the more their synapses transmitted some sort of negative signal to the equipment - and it broke down.
When I, or one of my engineer colleagues arrived on site, our more sympathetic 'engineer vibe' synapses did what our hands would have done and 'fixed it'. As a result, we rarely ever saw evidence of the weirder problems the user reported. So, while Concorde clearly 'enjoyed' doing her job, did she respond to your obviously sympathetic synapses?
Roger.
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Oh yes Roger, I do agree (and a point well made too). Concorde was very much a 1970's era electronics design (with even a little 1960s thrown in too). It was typical that as long as things were left alone and warm, they more or less were happy.
At Heathrow when the crew arrived to depart the aircraft, she was already fairly well tested and fired up, systems wise, even to the extent that the INSs were usually aligned (but not put into NAV mode). Now this all helped immensely as far as systems reliability went, but a last minute INS or ADC failure could often still occur, and hit you in the 'you know wheres' when you had least time. Such was the nature of the beast. (But we all loved her).
I hope so Roger, I think we all did our best. 
Dude
At Heathrow when the crew arrived to depart the aircraft, she was already fairly well tested and fired up, systems wise, even to the extent that the INSs were usually aligned (but not put into NAV mode). Now this all helped immensely as far as systems reliability went, but a last minute INS or ADC failure could often still occur, and hit you in the 'you know wheres' when you had least time. Such was the nature of the beast. (But we all loved her
).
So, while Concorde clearly 'enjoyed' doing her job, did she respond to your obviously sympathetic synapses?
Dude
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Charters
So nice to come back to find this thread is still running!
The various charters we had the pleasure of crewing were great fun; it certainly didn't feel as though one was at work!
The 'Father Christmas' trips were full of very happy children, (and even happier parents!) We would take Connie to Lapland and the passengers would have a fully organised day ahead of them, meeting Santa Claus etc, with a very early start and a late finish. (It was a day trip.) As crew we would nightstop and be entertained royally at the hotel...on one occasion I remember us all sitting down in uniform to dinner, I can't remember why, and something like 20 courses (16 of them herring!) being served to us. I was fortunate to be able to do a few of these trips, each one absolutely great fun for all involved.(Fortunately, I am quite partial to herring.) With the help of a Harley owning steward, I was even taught how to drive a snowmobile! We had sleigh rides which were pulled along by reindeer, gluwien in hand, and the best bit of all was always standing on the tarmac, (which, of course was covered in snow), watching Connie arrive from London - on touch-down a great plume of snow cascading behind her. All our cameras froze, but thankfully, there was a professional photographer taking shots which we were all given copies of. (Some of our cold weather civvies were a bit suspect. Having never skii-ed, I was lacking in the warm clothing department....I'm a beach girl through and through. I remember my wardrobe consisting of various pieces borrowed from all over the place, none of it matching and some just too big. Bang went the designer-bitch-from-the-Concorde-fleet reputation.)
We went to Moscow quite often to take the passengers to see the Bolshoi Ballet, and of course we accompanied them, resplendent in our evening wear. (Some of those F/D chappies certainly scrubbed up well.)(The gloss wore off the next morning when, on one such trip the water system on board froze on the ground and then provided us with a spectacular galley flood on thawing out.....causing a six hour delay if I recall.)(No need to chill down the fizz on that occasion.)
We were also part of the round trip that was the Venice -Simplon Orient Express, and we would either take pax to Venice where they would join the train, or bring them home after they had journey to Venice on the train. (I have done that trip as a passenger. Very nice too.) I also went on Concorde to Washington with my new husband on the day we were married, almost 30 years ago. To say the crew spoiled us would be somewhat of an understatement! (Even a wedding cake was provided on board!) Must have done something right, as Mr Landlady is still around to tell the tale. He has done some great trips accompanying me, usually most of the time spent on the F/D jumpseat, completely enthralled.
I haven't time right now to go into the spectacular Round-The -World aircruises, but I promise I will be back if you are still interested. I used to do some public speaking about Concorde on behalf of BA,(we were called ambassadors in those days),so I will try to dig out some catering facts and figures, which are quite interesting.
Thanks as always for your kind messages.
Landlady.
The various charters we had the pleasure of crewing were great fun; it certainly didn't feel as though one was at work!
The 'Father Christmas' trips were full of very happy children, (and even happier parents!) We would take Connie to Lapland and the passengers would have a fully organised day ahead of them, meeting Santa Claus etc, with a very early start and a late finish. (It was a day trip.) As crew we would nightstop and be entertained royally at the hotel...on one occasion I remember us all sitting down in uniform to dinner, I can't remember why, and something like 20 courses (16 of them herring!) being served to us. I was fortunate to be able to do a few of these trips, each one absolutely great fun for all involved.(Fortunately, I am quite partial to herring.) With the help of a Harley owning steward, I was even taught how to drive a snowmobile! We had sleigh rides which were pulled along by reindeer, gluwien in hand, and the best bit of all was always standing on the tarmac, (which, of course was covered in snow), watching Connie arrive from London - on touch-down a great plume of snow cascading behind her. All our cameras froze, but thankfully, there was a professional photographer taking shots which we were all given copies of. (Some of our cold weather civvies were a bit suspect. Having never skii-ed, I was lacking in the warm clothing department....I'm a beach girl through and through. I remember my wardrobe consisting of various pieces borrowed from all over the place, none of it matching and some just too big. Bang went the designer-bitch-from-the-Concorde-fleet reputation.
)We went to Moscow quite often to take the passengers to see the Bolshoi Ballet, and of course we accompanied them, resplendent in our evening wear. (Some of those F/D chappies certainly scrubbed up well.)(The gloss wore off the next morning when, on one such trip the water system on board froze on the ground and then provided us with a spectacular galley flood on thawing out.....causing a six hour delay if I recall.)(No need to chill down the fizz on that occasion.)
We were also part of the round trip that was the Venice -Simplon Orient Express, and we would either take pax to Venice where they would join the train, or bring them home after they had journey to Venice on the train. (I have done that trip as a passenger. Very nice too.) I also went on Concorde to Washington with my new husband on the day we were married, almost 30 years ago. To say the crew spoiled us would be somewhat of an understatement! (Even a wedding cake was provided on board!) Must have done something right, as Mr Landlady is still around to tell the tale. He has done some great trips accompanying me, usually most of the time spent on the F/D jumpseat, completely enthralled.
I haven't time right now to go into the spectacular Round-The -World aircruises, but I promise I will be back if you are still interested. I used to do some public speaking about Concorde on behalf of BA,(we were called ambassadors in those days),so I will try to dig out some catering facts and figures, which are quite interesting.
Thanks as always for your kind messages.
Landlady.
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A few little complements to Landlady's Rovaniemi (Santa Claus) story.
I think it's a take-off, but not sure...
(I used this one as my screen background for a long time.)
BA arrival (sorry for the quality, blown up from a tiny website pic, but it's a nice illustration of the atmosphere.
Both BA and Air France had their Santa Claus charters.
And sometimes they even met at Rovaniemi !
CJ
PS None of the photos are mine, but they're all public domain.
I'm sure there must be much better ones, but these are the only ones I had 'to hand'.
I think it's a take-off, but not sure...
(I used this one as my screen background for a long time.)
BA arrival (sorry for the quality, blown up from a tiny website pic, but it's a nice illustration of the atmosphere.
Both BA and Air France had their Santa Claus charters.
And sometimes they even met at Rovaniemi !
CJ
PS None of the photos are mine, but they're all public domain.
I'm sure there must be much better ones, but these are the only ones I had 'to hand'.
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Keeping her warm
I used to work for BA at BHX (Engineering). BHX was one of the BA diversion airfields for when LHR got fogged out.
A few of us were therefore trained on non BHX based aircraft types in case of diversions. On my shift, I was trained on the B747 and my colleage on Concorde.
Of course we didn't see these aircraft very often, but when we did we had to get out the old course notes to refresh
.
However, whenever Concorde turned up, my overriding memory was of my colleage who was obsessed with 'keeping her warm" - at all costs. I remember an occasion where the GPU, that had been running for a few hours (connected to a Concorde), ran out of diesel and therefore the power dropped off-line. I thought my colleage was going to have a heart attack - he did not come down from orbit until power was restored and everything appeared 'normal' again.
I think that this was something drummed into him whilst on his Concorde training course
A few of us were therefore trained on non BHX based aircraft types in case of diversions. On my shift, I was trained on the B747 and my colleage on Concorde.
Of course we didn't see these aircraft very often, but when we did we had to get out the old course notes to refresh
.However, whenever Concorde turned up, my overriding memory was of my colleage who was obsessed with 'keeping her warm" - at all costs. I remember an occasion where the GPU, that had been running for a few hours (connected to a Concorde), ran out of diesel and therefore the power dropped off-line. I thought my colleage was going to have a heart attack - he did not come down from orbit until power was restored and everything appeared 'normal' again.
I think that this was something drummed into him whilst on his Concorde training course
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Originally Posted by EXWOK
... visiting SFJ or Rovaniemi, or setting off around the world, predominantly to non-BA destinations. My favourites, though, were the RTBs out of Filton - EVERYONE was either connected to Conc development or manufacture, or was related to someone who was. Fantastic atmosphere. Shame the runway wasn't a bit longer........
Originally Posted by M2Dude
The most amazing thing about RTW charters (or earth orbiters, as I would call them) was that the aircraft often returned to London with only a very small handfull of minor defects. The thing about Concorde was the more that she flew, the happier she was, and less likely to catch a cold.
Originally Posted by M2Dude
At Heathrow when the crew arrived to depart the aircraft, she was already fairly well tested and fired up, systems wise, even to the extent that the INSs were usually aligned (but not put into NAV mode). Now this all helped immensely as far as systems reliability went, but a last minute INS or ADC failure could often still occur, and hit you in the 'you know wheres' when you had least time. Such was the nature of the beast. (But we all loved her ).
Originally Posted by Landlady
I haven't time right now to go into the spectacular Round-The -World aircruises, but I promise I will be back if you are still interested. I used to do some public speaking about Concorde on behalf of BA,(we were called ambassadors in those days),so I will try to dig out some catering facts and figures, which are quite interesting.
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"Flying on Concorde" is as much a part of the "Concorde Story" as "Flying Concorde" or "Keeping Concorde Flying" or "Building Concorde"......
After all, Concorde may have been a technical achievement, and a beautiful aircraft.... but first and foremost she was... an airliner !!
CJ
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They still don't like being too warm or too cold, to this day....
In the French Le Bourget Air and Space Museum, Sierra Delta (F-BTSD) has to live in a big hall, without any heating or air conditioning.
He (yes, "he", French Concordes are "he"s unlike their British sisters) is the one that is still 'alive' to some extent, and that will still greet you by lowering and raising his nose if you're there at the right time.
And he too will tell you unequivocally, even today, whe it's simply too hot or too cold to 'perform'.
Luckily, his human friend, who's been taking care of him since he arrived at the museum, understands him very well.... I know there are some "sympathetic brain waves" there.....
CJ