AF 447 Search to resume
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French Judge Files Charges Against Airbus over Rio Crash
BBC News - Airbus faces manslaughter charges over Rio crash
Well, it's about time they started blaming someone. <sarcasm>
Well, it's about time they started blaming someone. <sarcasm>
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An argument over French v English Law is the last thing I want to see here. This 'charge', I think should be looked at with an eye toward discovery, rather than "Culpability".
The ultimate responsibility lies with the carrier, and the manufacturer.
My opinion from the outset is that BEA has invited this sorry situation with its arrogant, flimsy, and parochial attitudes, expressed in its public disclosures, and an unwillingness to simply pursue the truth of the matter.
A long discussion of arcane and unpopular minutiae has come and gone. The Families know the depth of studied nonchalance exhibited by the principals, and their thinly disguised agendas.
The Pilots acted, the Families have acted, Now the Law. Inevitable.
Alucia. Bon chance.
The ultimate responsibility lies with the carrier, and the manufacturer.
My opinion from the outset is that BEA has invited this sorry situation with its arrogant, flimsy, and parochial attitudes, expressed in its public disclosures, and an unwillingness to simply pursue the truth of the matter.
A long discussion of arcane and unpopular minutiae has come and gone. The Families know the depth of studied nonchalance exhibited by the principals, and their thinly disguised agendas.
The Pilots acted, the Families have acted, Now the Law. Inevitable.
Alucia. Bon chance.
The BBC story also states that the Alucia search is being funded by Airbus and Air France. Has the BEA given up?
[EDIT] It would appear not:
The New Undersea Search Campaign
[EDIT] It would appear not:
The New Undersea Search Campaign
Last edited by Chris Scott; 17th Mar 2011 at 18:16. Reason: 2nd para and link added
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This 'charge', I think should be looked at with an eye toward discovery, rather than "Culpability".
'Bearfoil', I suppose you did use 'discovery' in its legal sense?
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Discovery in the legal manner, yes. This has some interesting implications, relative to the investigation. At this stage, I think responsibilty is assumed, that is, the carrier and the Manufacturer.
The focus is now on the recorders, evidence in the legal sense, and not just pro per, iow to be utilized and "reported" by involved parties. There is a new party, the French Judiciary. Ownership is not to the BEA, but to the court, I would think. I cannot imagine the Court allowing even the "appearance" of impropriety, thus the boxes must not be touched by the accused. It will be interesting to follow the role of the BEA. Friend of the Court, I would assume, now. The expense of the recovery should of course be assumed by the accused, but they should be billed at a later date, after a complete accounting has been accomplished, to remove any hint of "follow the money".
Will the Court be satisfied in allowing BEA to take possession? (Should they be found). Or will an officer of the Court establish first and primary chain of custody? Crash investigations have always seemed incestuous to me, the ultimate goal somewhat clouded by the "buddy system".
In a case where no good whatever can come from the discovery of the Truth of the matter for the players, they should be prevented from involvement in any search for evidence, excepting advice and data they possess.
Christiaan, I defer completely to your assessment of the legalities. There has been a total turn in events.
The focus is now on the recorders, evidence in the legal sense, and not just pro per, iow to be utilized and "reported" by involved parties. There is a new party, the French Judiciary. Ownership is not to the BEA, but to the court, I would think. I cannot imagine the Court allowing even the "appearance" of impropriety, thus the boxes must not be touched by the accused. It will be interesting to follow the role of the BEA. Friend of the Court, I would assume, now. The expense of the recovery should of course be assumed by the accused, but they should be billed at a later date, after a complete accounting has been accomplished, to remove any hint of "follow the money".
Will the Court be satisfied in allowing BEA to take possession? (Should they be found). Or will an officer of the Court establish first and primary chain of custody? Crash investigations have always seemed incestuous to me, the ultimate goal somewhat clouded by the "buddy system".
In a case where no good whatever can come from the discovery of the Truth of the matter for the players, they should be prevented from involvement in any search for evidence, excepting advice and data they possess.
Christiaan, I defer completely to your assessment of the legalities. There has been a total turn in events.
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Will the Court be satisfied in allowing BEA to take possession?
However, as the applied jurisprudence in most democracies is assumed to be unfettered by vested interests, including arms of the state, some judicial oversight is to be expected in all that happens from this point and onwards.
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Hi,
Anyway ..if the black boxes are recovered ... they must receive (when output from sea) a judicial seal affixed by a responsible person from the french Ministry of Justice.
And when return in France for analyse (or other place) this seal must be broken under the supervision of responsible person from the french Ministry of Justice
This for prevent any (possible) manipulations
Anyway ..if the black boxes are recovered ... they must receive (when output from sea) a judicial seal affixed by a responsible person from the french Ministry of Justice.
And when return in France for analyse (or other place) this seal must be broken under the supervision of responsible person from the french Ministry of Justice
This for prevent any (possible) manipulations
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How sad. If the allegation of the 'sensors' giving false data were true (and can be proven in court, which I doubt) it is most unlikely that any competent First Officer, let alone Captain, could not fly 'Power + Attitude for Performance,' and retrieve the situation.
This trial will not yield any conclusive result; how could it when most of the evidence will be conjecture? So, another major score for Sue, Grabbit and Runne, and, of course, for the 'expert witnesses' from both sides, most of whom will contradict each other.
Quelle farce!
This trial will not yield any conclusive result; how could it when most of the evidence will be conjecture? So, another major score for Sue, Grabbit and Runne, and, of course, for the 'expert witnesses' from both sides, most of whom will contradict each other.
Quelle farce!
Thanks, broadreach.
Quote from the BEA, for anyone who hasn't seen it yet:
"The search vessel Alucia will leave its home port in Seattle at the beginning of February to sail towards the port of Suape (Brazil) via the Panama canal. There it will load the Geomar REMUS and the participants in the expedition around 15 March so as to be in the search area approximately five days later."
The New Undersea Search Campaign
Wold you say the schedule has slipped by about 6 days?
Quote from the BEA, for anyone who hasn't seen it yet:
"The search vessel Alucia will leave its home port in Seattle at the beginning of February to sail towards the port of Suape (Brazil) via the Panama canal. There it will load the Geomar REMUS and the participants in the expedition around 15 March so as to be in the search area approximately five days later."
The New Undersea Search Campaign
Wold you say the schedule has slipped by about 6 days?
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Thanks Broadreach.
Now, I wonder why I posted -
on 10 Feb?
Now, I wonder why I posted -
The dive support vessel "Alucia" departed Harbor Island, Seattle, WA at 10/1430z for Port Suape, Brazil via the Panama Canal.
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From the BEA site:
Didin't some of the certification standards date back to 1947 ?
Is there any news about what's going on with this particular issue at the moment?
AF447 was not the only flight affected by this issue.
It appeared, however, that airplane certification standards did not cover all of the conditions that could be encountered in clouds at high altitude. The BEA made a recommendation aimed at better defining these conditions and consequently reviewing the certification criteria, in particular those of Pitot tubes. The European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) took this recommendation into account and is undertaking the corresponding research.
Is there any news about what's going on with this particular issue at the moment?
AF447 was not the only flight affected by this issue.
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Yes of course, broadreach remembers now, Suape it was, Chris and MM43 are absolutely correct. Fading memory cells this end. But she DID give Recife as her destination on leaving Panama.... 
And AIS, having realized it's Friday evening, has decided to go AWOL and give the techies something to do over the weekend.
And AIS, having realized it's Friday evening, has decided to go AWOL and give the techies something to do over the weekend.
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"Alucia" - update - BEA press release
PHASE 4 - Sea search operations
This is to inform you that a media advisory will take place on the harbor of Suape on Monday, March 21st, 2011 at 11:30 AM sharp after the arrival of the Vessel Alucia into Suape next weekend.
During the media advisory you will have the opportunity to visit the Alucia, make video recordings of the Remus as well as conduct interviews with Dave Gallo, Director of special projects and Mike Purcell, Expedition Leader, from the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution.
Jean-Paul Troadec, Director of the BEA , the safety authority in charge of the investigation into the accident of Airbus A330 – AF Flight 447 will be meeting with the search team in Suape.
The full press release can be found at:- AF447 - Information, 14 March 2011
This is to inform you that a media advisory will take place on the harbor of Suape on Monday, March 21st, 2011 at 11:30 AM sharp after the arrival of the Vessel Alucia into Suape next weekend.
During the media advisory you will have the opportunity to visit the Alucia, make video recordings of the Remus as well as conduct interviews with Dave Gallo, Director of special projects and Mike Purcell, Expedition Leader, from the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution.
Jean-Paul Troadec, Director of the BEA , the safety authority in charge of the investigation into the accident of Airbus A330 – AF Flight 447 will be meeting with the search team in Suape.
The full press release can be found at:- AF447 - Information, 14 March 2011