V1 cut on the B777
BTW, the 787 does not have a TAC for what it's worth and consequently Boeing is teaching most if not all EO procedures with the TAC on in the B777 with an eye towards a common type rating in the US.
Fullwings,
The 787 doesn't have a TAC SWITCH. The TAC is intregral to the FBW system and can't be switched off, so that's why common training would involve leaving the TAC ON in the 777.
This might be a problem for a mixed-fleet qualification, as experience has shown the TAC would probably trip off (re-settably) in a sudden thrust loss on the 777.
The 787 doesn't have a TAC SWITCH. The TAC is intregral to the FBW system and can't be switched off, so that's why common training would involve leaving the TAC ON in the 777.
This might be a problem for a mixed-fleet qualification, as experience has shown the TAC would probably trip off (re-settably) in a sudden thrust loss on the 777.
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Wizoff has corrected my statement which was poorly worded in trying to convey the concept.I stand in utter shame and deminished worth!
Should'a said SWITCH to be more clear.
Should'a said SWITCH to be more clear.
Last edited by Spooky 2; 30th May 2009 at 13:05. Reason: Additional info
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Boeingdream787:------- Where do I go and ask?? You can't be serious??
I assume you have a training department in your Airline? A chief Pilot perhaps? A Training Captain you could ask? Even the ground school instructors? Simulator instructor? Geeze even ask your line Captain he might have a clue or 3.
Any half decent Check Captain/Sim instructor should be happy to demonstrate/talk you through both methods in the Sim.
You shouldn't need to ask in Pprune, were you too embarrassed to ask via the correct channels at work? Don't be, that's what they are there for.
I totally agree mate, however the "wiser others" are employed in your Flight Operations Department and NOT in Pprune 
I assume you have a training department in your Airline? A chief Pilot perhaps? A Training Captain you could ask? Even the ground school instructors? Simulator instructor? Geeze even ask your line Captain he might have a clue or 3.
Any half decent Check Captain/Sim instructor should be happy to demonstrate/talk you through both methods in the Sim.
You shouldn't need to ask in Pprune, were you too embarrassed to ask via the correct channels at work? Don't be, that's what they are there for.
One needs valuable input from the wiser 'others' every once in a while doesn't one?
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I just re-read your original post again and the following worries me a bit.
Are you or are you not a 777 rated crew member? if you were I can't see why you would need to ask such a BASIC question as that? You mean you have never completed a V1 cut using VNav? You mean to say you don't know if the F/D in Vnav will command a pitch attitude designed to clean up the A/C?
And if you don't use Vnav ( use TOGA only ) you don't know if you have to open the speed window or not to command an acceleration?
What the hell have you been doing for all your V1 cuts? Raw data perhaps?
Sorry bud but if you are a 777 rated Pilot then you'd better go back and do the Sim endorsement AGAIN, this time awake.
Geeze, next you'll be asking when to push the CLB/CON switch!!
My question is,what would be the correct procedure here after a V1 cut.Gear up and hit TOGA or just gear up.And if you dont hit TOGA what would be the FMA readout at acceleration ht.If you dont hit TOGA would Vnav clean up the airplane until the clean speed?And what if you DO hit TOGA? Would you have to open the speed window at acceleration ht to speed up to clean speed? And which is the right thing to do
And if you don't use Vnav ( use TOGA only ) you don't know if you have to open the speed window or not to command an acceleration?
What the hell have you been doing for all your V1 cuts? Raw data perhaps?
Sorry bud but if you are a 777 rated Pilot then you'd better go back and do the Sim endorsement AGAIN, this time awake.
Geeze, next you'll be asking when to push the CLB/CON switch!!
Wizoff has corrected my statement which was poorly worded in trying to convey the concept.I stand in utter shame and deminished worth! Should'a said SWITCH to be more clear.
It's interesting that they've gone down the "always-on" route. Is the envelope protection the same as the 777 or is it tweaked further in the Airbus direction?
GE90115BL2, go easy on the poor lad! Obviously, the manual for Flight Simulator X doesn't go into that much detail...
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We all see your point GE but I think what you should be asking is who did this guys training.
If he is asking a question it could well be that the training he received in the first place was inadequate or not as thourough as it could have been, in which case you should be directing your comments higher up the tree.
If he is asking a question it could well be that the training he received in the first place was inadequate or not as thourough as it could have been, in which case you should be directing your comments higher up the tree.
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I agree with what you say but surely the most basic of 777 endorsement training would use LNAV and VNAV for departure covering the V1 cut.
It's the way Boeing designed the aircraft to be flown and the easiest way to do it. Engine failure for dummies!!
very basic stuff that he should know if he really was flying a 777.
It's the way Boeing designed the aircraft to be flown and the easiest way to do it. Engine failure for dummies!!
very basic stuff that he should know if he really was flying a 777.
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Guys,thanks for all your input(s).Goes well appreciated.
GE-
You're like an itch on my balls.Too embarrasing to itch but too nasty to leave alone.
I prefer the latter!
The sheer variation in the replies should be proof enough that not everything is always done by the same book.Just in case you are stupid enough to wonder,there is currently an open dialogue between Boeing and a half a dozen major 777 operator's on this very subject.And this thread has managed to open up a couple more ways to skin the cat.
So much for stupid questions on Pprune.
And I thought that the only stupid ones were those never asked...
Got to go now.
GE-
You're like an itch on my balls.Too embarrasing to itch but too nasty to leave alone.
I prefer the latter!
The sheer variation in the replies should be proof enough that not everything is always done by the same book.Just in case you are stupid enough to wonder,there is currently an open dialogue between Boeing and a half a dozen major 777 operator's on this very subject.And this thread has managed to open up a couple more ways to skin the cat.
So much for stupid questions on Pprune.
And I thought that the only stupid ones were those never asked...
Got to go now.
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Just FWIW,
The 787 DOES have TAC,and as a matter of fact its supposed to be compensating over 95% of the yaw in case of an EO.Could have been 100% but boeing decided to "de-grade" it to provide some feel(as in the 777's).No switch however,as correctly pointed out.
@Boeingdream:
You're like an itch on my balls.Too embarrasing to itch but too nasty to leave alone.
I prefer the latter!...
Niice one....hahaha!
The 787 DOES have TAC,and as a matter of fact its supposed to be compensating over 95% of the yaw in case of an EO.Could have been 100% but boeing decided to "de-grade" it to provide some feel(as in the 777's).No switch however,as correctly pointed out.
@Boeingdream:
You're like an itch on my balls.Too embarrasing to itch but too nasty to leave alone.
I prefer the latter!...
Niice one....hahaha!
Moderator
Chaps,
I know we all get a bit focussed at times. However, the forum really isn't the place to get agitated .. if a question is asked, one should presume that an answer is desired. If the question surprises one, that is fine .. but the need is to answer the question rather than chastise the person asking ..
As always, play the ball rather than the player (and I had to give some thought as to whether I should add that comment ... c'est la vie).
I know we all get a bit focussed at times. However, the forum really isn't the place to get agitated .. if a question is asked, one should presume that an answer is desired. If the question surprises one, that is fine .. but the need is to answer the question rather than chastise the person asking ..
As always, play the ball rather than the player (and I had to give some thought as to whether I should add that comment ... c'est la vie).
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I'm one of those that is actively involved with this ongoing symposium that BD made a reference to.And my previous company as a matter of interest was the pioneering force behind this Q & A stream of dialogues.Very big training issues.
And now operational...
And Old Smokey has pretty nearly nailed it straight on the head as far as I'm concerned
.
And now operational...
And Old Smokey has pretty nearly nailed it straight on the head as far as I'm concerned
.
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Oh,
And very nicely put John.An extremely well timed indent,if i've ever seen one!
Post was going places it really shouldn't have been going!
Cheers....
To JT.
And very nicely put John.An extremely well timed indent,if i've ever seen one!
Post was going places it really shouldn't have been going!
Cheers....
To JT.
