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Airbus vs Boeing

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Airbus vs Boeing

Old 18th Apr 2008, 05:58
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Denver,Co USA
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I just checked out in the 777 after 10 years flying the A320. I have also flown all the Boeings from the 707 on. While the Boeings seem more solid I like flying the bus. The 787 is going to be a common type rating with the 777, but the cockpit looka a lot more star Wars like and seats look completely different. You can blame the yoke on the old pilots at UAL. they were the launch customer and had a lot to say about the design. A little irony here I have had a lot of FO's say they really like flying the bus, but if they had to go to war the would want a Boeing, and now the USAF has chosen the A330 as their new tanker.
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Old 18th Apr 2008, 08:20
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Airbus FBW family.....Custom designed originals

B757......very nice to fly, but, at the end of the day it's the b*ast*rd child of a drunken night out between a B727 and a B767

B767.....Custom designed original, very nice to fly, but seriously old fashioned compared to the bus

B777...slghtly warmed over B767 with some FBW bits to make it appear modern

B787....plastic B777

type rated on MD80, A320/321, B757, B767. Loved them all, but give me a choice and it's the Airbus every time. Despite what Rananim, thinks they're great for hand flying too.

Bus14
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Old 18th Apr 2008, 08:52
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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I would definitively fly a B-727 than any Airbus.
The airbus is booooring.
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Old 18th Apr 2008, 09:58
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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Control column - agree; it's sad that we never got to see a proper force-feedback sidestick with cross-cockpit linking. Boeing had the chance to do it properly and out-Airbus Airbus but blew it.

Gale-force air conditioning - agree; I end up taping over most of the vents on a long flight otherwise I feel like I've been sandpapering my face. There's a major blast of air from the gaps between the overhead panels as well.

Sun "shades" - agree; completely useless, too small and not dark enough. Luckily there are plenty of newspapers available.

Window handles - neutral; could live with either, don't open the window that much anyway.

Tiller - agree; the blasted things always seem to have some sort of bias one way or the other, so it won't a) go in a straight line without input leading to b) applying a steady force for the whole taxi, either on the tiller or the rudder pedals. This is mucho annoying on a long taxi out.

Uncomfortable seat - agree in spades; I think the designer of the Iron Maiden was teamed up with a concrete technician to make these. I've slept on floors that were more comfortable.

Seat rails - agree; another design triumph.

Flap limit speeds - disagree; They seem to be present, or do my eyes deceive me...?

MCP distant - sort of agree; the EICAS/COM/synoptic panel is a bit of a stretch from the LHS but think of the poor occupant of the RHS who can barely see the N1/EPR gauges as they're so far away.

EICAS - disagree; seems to work OK. Why do you need to check things constantly, have you not heard of Sudoku? How do you know if something is good or bad if there are no published limits for it and the systems are self-configuring? You have to be careful not to manufacture a "problem" where none really exists.

Trim - agree; what's the point of trim on a FBW aeroplane? Do you ever want to be out of trim? Answers on a postcard...

Overall there's plenty to complain about but I do get the feeling that I'm flying a very safe aircraft. I don't think the handling is enjoyable but it works and I can't think of anything better in a 40kt crosswind. It has thrust asymmetry and envelope protection but they don't get in your way during normal operations and can be overridden if you don't like what they're up to. A few mods to increase the comfort level at the front, some FF joysticks and we're ready to go. Here's to the 787 doing at least some of this...
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Old 18th Apr 2008, 10:20
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
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Airbus v Boeing (v Douglas etc...)
One thing only to remember, in the words of the old song "Love the one you're with"

....
And the eagle flies with the dove
And if you can't be with the one you love
...
love the one, love the one, love the one your with
.....
Don't be angry
Don't be sad
Don't sit cryin' for good times you had

etc etc
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Old 18th Apr 2008, 11:49
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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but what frustrates me with the 777 is that it is a newer aircraft than the Airbus yet some aspects seem dumbed down so to be like older Boeings....Almost like putting a hand crank start on a new car because that's how they're always done it!!
Typifies nicely the chasm between the two camps.The Airbus afficionado is basically a tech-junkie,probably queues for the latest iphone/ipod and then throws it away when something shinier comes along in 6 months.I've had the same mobile for the last ten years and wont be changing it anytime soon.But translate this tech-addiction to flying and you have a problem.Flying doesnt change and neither do humans;they're lousy monitors especially in the only available channel that Airbus give you(optical),and they need multiple cues in as many sensory channels as possible to function optimally.
When Airbus introduced their wonder-machine way back when, they said it was so easy that a kid could fly it and that it would put an end to pilot-error.How wrong they were.
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Old 18th Apr 2008, 12:25
  #27 (permalink)  
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"Gale-force air conditioning - agree; I end up taping over most of the vents on a long flight otherwise I feel like I've been sandpapering my face. There's a major blast of air from the gaps between the overhead panels as well."

Isn't some of that the equipment cooling air? And you tape it off?
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Old 18th Apr 2008, 13:02
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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“Flying doesn’t change and neither do humans”

How wrong! Flying does change. I hate to have to state the obvious but that statement means some of us don’t see this point: Flight dynamics may be constant for a given configuration, mass, and velocity, but the act of how we as humans use the technology at our disposal to get an aeroplane from A to B hasn’t stopped evolving for over a hundred years. If we stifle this evolution with the attitude of “well it’s worked alright for the last ten years” we never would have had the A320 and all that has evolved from it.

I for one am looking forward to see what innovations are just around the corner.
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Old 18th Apr 2008, 14:08
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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FullWings . . . "taping over the air vents" . . .are you one of those guys who doesn't wear a T-shirt and easily gets cold chills, and then thinks that the cockpit temp ought to be 26c?

I run the cockpit temp at or nearest to 22c [Int'l comfort standard] and tell my copilot to bring a sweater if he has a problem with that.
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Old 18th Apr 2008, 20:05
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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Regarding air vents: nothing to do with the temperature, just the volume & velocity of the air that comes out of them. On a long night sector, it goes down the back of your neck, up your sleeves, dries your eyes out, etc. On one of our aircaft that is set to force 11-12, I had to fold up a bit of newspaper into a makeshift hat to avoid going numb around the ears!

It's a personal viewpoint, of course, much in the same way that some people can stand on a glacier at midday without sunglasses and others wouldn't even be able to open their eyes. I fall into the latter category, if you haven't guessed already...
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Old 18th Apr 2008, 20:38
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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Boeing and Airbus are for sissies,
Try flying the MD11 and douglas metal
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Old 19th Apr 2008, 03:00
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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I think they tried the ploughed field approach at Heathrow earlier this year????
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Old 19th Apr 2008, 20:54
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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Can you handfly an Airbus?Didnt think so.
The game is quite simple: if you can't handfly Airboos to happy landing in direct law (and that's very manual indeed), you cannot put Airboos type rating on your licence. Your opinion holds true for every non-pilot, though.

The best airplane in the world is the one you're paid to fly. If you want a happy and long lasting friendship with her, love her good sides and learn to live with her bad sides.

Boeing or Bus? Whichever gets me bigger paycheck and more free time (in a vain hope they're not mutually exclusive) - even if it's Cessna.
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Old 20th Apr 2008, 19:04
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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Wow I love reading this and FULLWINGS your post is really really funny here seriously..

Very entertaining to read about the gale force air vent. HAHAHAHA
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Old 21st Apr 2008, 07:44
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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Lets see.....Airbus seats by Recaro no wonder they are so comfy.
Boeing cockpit designed by 4'2" midget with a change purse for a flight kit. "This should be plenty of room for 3 (at the time) crewmembers". PS. Per boeing engineers, the 707,727,737 was designed for a 5'2" pilot. I guess thats why my 6'7" 275lbs of muscle just didnt fit!
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Old 21st Apr 2008, 13:14
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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I guess thats why my 6'7" 275lbs of muscle just didn't fit!

At 6'7, I'm sure you'd have a hard time fitting anywhere!
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Old 21st Apr 2008, 14:05
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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Reclined:

In fully reclined (normal) flying position yoke obscures the PFD/ND displays.

when you are trying to sleep with your head on the ridiculous control column.

Uncomfortable seat with centre harness strap that crushes your jewels. Does not recline enough.

Chair armrest obscures the CM1 RMP in the (normal) reclined position.

Major effort from (normal) reclined position to order any weather etc or check system displays.
Am I mistaken or misunderstanding the many references to reclined or sleeping...in the cockpit?
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Old 21st Apr 2008, 14:39
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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templarknight
Six days ... not bad.. but I think you've been rumbled!
TP
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Old 21st Apr 2008, 14:50
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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reclining is all it means--

when sitting on butt for hours on end, a simple consideration of mechanics would conclude that if one could reduce the vertical force upon one's back, and butt, the less pain and resultant discomfort and after years, malfunction of lower back and hip area.

i find that only after 4 hours, i must stand up, if only in the flight deck. and that is only on the 737-800.
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Old 22nd Apr 2008, 04:28
  #40 (permalink)  
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Seawings
The airplane flys for 17 hours and with two pilots we can fly for about 10 hours so yes we do (and are permitted to by the company) rest/sleep in the cockpit.
Foxtrot India
As above yes it is going to be a long flight but your comment is to be expected. Just because someone has a moan doesnt mean they are going to be an arse to fly with. I dont like the Boeing; I prefer the Airbus, hence the thread.
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