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Strange Habits of Your Captains

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Strange Habits of Your Captains

Old 20th Jul 2007, 15:21
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Strange Habits of Your Captains

Thought this would run nicely alongside "Strange habits of your co-pilots".
Cause to be fair, we're not the only people who do daft things.
Care to comment...

Last edited by randomair; 20th Jul 2007 at 15:25. Reason: typo
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Old 20th Jul 2007, 16:17
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No thank you. Your job (especially at the ripe age of 21) is to sit there, shut up, adapt to different techniques, and start learning the job, and not criticise the people who have to work with you, worthless that you are. You will meet many different types of people, all of whom have shown they are fit to command an airliner. A few hundred hours do not make you an ace. You have no basis yet on which to make judgements of people, so temper your derision and criticism until you know more!
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Old 20th Jul 2007, 16:46
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Thumbs up

Enjoyed that Rainboe!! Not far off the mark.

But there are the odd dodgy captains around, and it is behoven of the young 'uns to keep a bloody close eye. Their issue is when to say or do something. Getting that right is also a big part of the learning curve.

Bet you didn't stay quiet all the way to your command, pal!
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Old 20th Jul 2007, 16:53
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"Your job (especially at the ripe age of 21) is to sit there, shut up..."

interesting crm, especially if the other chap has made a mistake...
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Old 20th Jul 2007, 16:55
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Couldn't of asked for a better reply....well theres one stupid thing already that a captain (i assume) has done.

"Your job (especially at the ripe age of 21) is to sit there, shut up"
"You have no basis yet on which to make judgements of people"

Dont really need to reply to that comment...but i will. Although i have youth on my side being 21 i still have 3 years commercial jet experiance with 2 jet types and 5 years total flying. I'm fully aware this is not 30 years flying experience, but it still gives me the grounding to be able to identify good/efficient ways to operate an aircraft and not such good examples.

You should appriciate that not every co-pilot flys for a large airline, where the captains that you fly with have a wealth of experience. Like yourself!
In my previous airline, if i stayed there i would be undertaking command training as we speak on a jet aircraft. So would it be my job to sit there and shut up??? And just because I would be a captain..does that mean i wouldn't do silly things?

"adapt to different techniques"

This is exactly the reason why this topic is valid. Being a co-pilot we continually have to vary the way we operate in order to fit round the captains masterplan. It is these different techniques that that we have to operate around, that we can find questionable methods....Not necessarily wrong but sometimes silly...and we can talk about them on this forum...to the benefit of everyone.

"A few hundred hours do not make you an ace"

True.....neither does 2300hours with 2100 jet...which i have.

Thought i just finish my post with an immature twist...just like yours.

randomair
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Old 20th Jul 2007, 16:56
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Take a quick look at Rainboe's signature, and his final !.

What he is saying (if I interpret correctly between the lines), is, be ever alert to the operation, be prepared to speak up unequivocabley whenever and every time when you are outside your comfort zone - and sooner rather than later, so that you can reassured and/or your views properly assessed at a more leisurely time rather than late in the approach, when other factors kick in.

As a low-hours pilot, your views will be welcomed, but sometimes you will find them discounted - expect this. Unless you think you are about to die, the best time to discuss your concerns sometimes is on the ground after the flight over a beer [but not before the next flight in 30 minutes]. In this environment the matters can be discussed leisurely with nothing else going on and the discussion will be more fruitful.

Everyone can get a 'reputation', some good, some bad. For an FO the 'crying wolf' reputation is not a good one to have, 'cos sometimes then legitimate and valid concerns will be automatically disregarded. This is why I say speak up when you are outside your comfort zone, and not to say 'I have control' when a someone is 1/2 a dot high and 10 kts fast on the ILS to a 3500m runway! The same viewpoint is valid to a wet 1700m runway at 1 nm final (the facts at least if not the taking control ie call for a go-around).

Last edited by TopBunk; 20th Jul 2007 at 18:49.
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Old 20th Jul 2007, 17:57
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The only thing worse than a 20,000 hour captain with 40 years of experience who is arrogant is an arrogant 2,300 hour pilot with 5 years of experience.
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Old 20th Jul 2007, 18:31
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Hey randomair,

Are you random in the air?



Sorry...couldn't resist.

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Old 20th Jul 2007, 18:35
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No i'm just consistently bad.

Con Pilot, that was good, and no doubt true. Even i had to laugh.

Just having a balanced debate thats all.

randomair
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Old 20th Jul 2007, 18:37
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Thanks- some people have seen the point! You must adapt yourself, young man, to different characters in the left hand seat, and take time to learn to work effectively with them, because one day, you are going to be in that seat and you will have to work with all sorts of weirdos in the right hand seat. Does it surprise you to learn that far more evils take place in the rhs than ever the lhs? It comes as a complete shock to learn that not all [word self-censored] are in the left seat only! You have, ass a Captain, to find a way of working effectively with whatever you are given in the rhs, be it 'difficult', incompetent, slow, ignorant, arrogant, whatever. So have patience with the guy in charge, because he's the one carrying the can and ultimately responsible. The least you can do is not belittle him! You're going to want that respect one day.
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Old 20th Jul 2007, 18:49
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thanks point taken, i fully understand that.

All i was creating was a topic to sit side by side "Strange habits of your co-pilots." basically a sign that i've got too much time on my hands...

randomair
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Old 20th Jul 2007, 19:57
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I flew with a guy once who had a habit (at 3am in the morning) of setting his Egg timer to go off. Which used to scare the living sh#t out of me..because the bloody thing sounded EXACTLY like the fire bell
Another "interesting" fellow used to eat his food all the way down from TOD to getting the geardown when he was PF..and still did a better job than I will ever do
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Old 20th Jul 2007, 22:36
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In over thirty five years as a heavy jet Commander, I had only one co-pilot complain to management.

The result?

This turkey was demoted to a lower fleet, as the respective heavy jet fleet manager couldn't stand him , either.
And, he stayed there for 5 more years.
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Old 20th Jul 2007, 22:51
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I have flown with egg-timer man. My version has a little ritual where he unpacks an eggtimer and a little flipper thing, to be placed on the centre console. The eggtimer is used to check on the cabin crew ie that they contact him every 20mins. The flipper is a little private joke (only flip it over in case of emergency).
I didn't mention the baseball cap with the obscene slogan on.
On tours with this geezer I was careful to stick rigidly to SOPs and be clear to stick to the party line for the benefit of the voice track. I have a mortgage to pay.
I provided my own sandwiches on tours with our hero; such was his antagonism of the cabin crew, I was bathed in their derision and could not risk a 'special marinade' on the beef.
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Old 21st Jul 2007, 06:23
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F/O's quickly come to learn that almost all captains do things differently, and are oft heard to lament, "if only they'd all do it the same way".

Then, when they move to the left hand seat, if they're observant, they realise that all the F/Os do it differently too!
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Old 21st Jul 2007, 09:05
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Every day, I look across to the left hand pilot's seat - and there is no-one there.
And I sometimes talk to myself - is that a strange habit?

Sometimes I'm a rebel, too. I start the "odd" engine on an "even" day. That'll show em, hehehe.
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Old 21st Jul 2007, 10:42
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Still remember the first day out of supervision, proud to have 150 hours 737 under my belt. Flew with an old geezer a sector to barcelona, he was flying, manually of course the whole time without any automation on. In the descent i noticed the aircraft leaving the intendet track, called it out two times, looked over to find my handflying old captain thoroughly asleep

Of course i let him sleep and just flew the damn thing myself until he woke up 20 minutes later.

12 hours later after our duty we had a couple beers and talked it over, end result was i never learned as much as from that chap, especially in regards to flying without all that automatic stuff.

Nowadays i enjoy all the different ways of doing the right thing, the small techniques and all i can learn from it, be it a good or a bad example. The only times im really scared is when i have to fly as a safety on the jump seat with new hires. And every time i have to ask myself: was i really that bad myself back then?
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Old 21st Jul 2007, 20:40
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Hey you know what, it really is a shame to see people bashing each other over what seat they sit in, or what experience they have or haven't had. Makes me think that the "bad old days" unfortunately haven't quite disappeared for a few people. In my own experience (sitting in both seats) i tend to find that those who are particularly overbearing or those who are arogant in any way, tend to use this as some kind of veil to hide the fact that they lack some confidence and/or ability when it comes to doing the job. Thankfully these people are in an ever decreasing minority, and most of the people i get to fly with are an excellent bunch. Lets face it, flying is a job, the sooner people realise this, leave there ego's at home, and just try to enjoy a good day out, the better. The whole operation runs a lot smoother and safer that way.
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Old 21st Jul 2007, 22:15
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From personal experience I remember when a Captain: had to make a go-around on short final because he was high and hot (VMC); wouldn't call "Gear Down" although I'd repeated numerous times "Standing by Gear"; I took immediate control of the a/c because it was apparent (to me) that he was going to land on top of a building approaching MDW (3:00 in the morning)- "apparent" as neither one of us ever confirmed the incident; and he got lost on climb out resulting in non-happy responses from ATC.
There we go, 4 things that I recall. Could have been some others.
From personal experience I remember when a co-pilot: well, I could write a book on this one.
Oh yeh, I remember on occassion a stewardess, oppps, sorry, flight attendant, on occassion would say, "My job's just as important as yours."
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Old 22nd Jul 2007, 03:06
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Talking

I flew with a captain once that didn't have any strange habits!

I thought that was strange!

BH
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