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BA's 80 Knot Call

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BA's 80 Knot Call

Old 3rd Feb 2007, 13:26
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BA's 80 Knot Call

Hi

Does anybody know why in BA SOPs, the call by the NHP: "80 KNOTS" gets no response from the HP?

Thanks
c152pilot is offline  
Old 3rd Feb 2007, 13:48
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Why does it need a response?
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Old 3rd Feb 2007, 13:59
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to check if the guy is still alive!!!

why wait until the v1 call to find out
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Old 3rd Feb 2007, 14:00
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We use the (100kts) call as a way to check i)Incapacitation of the handling pilot ii)instrument x-check so the response 'checked' is very important in Airbus standard SOP, and the airline I work for.
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Old 3rd Feb 2007, 14:05
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In an RTO below 80kts NHP selects Reverse Idle, above Full Reverse.
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Old 3rd Feb 2007, 14:06
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Thumbs up

We use 80kts call by the nfp, and fp responds 'checked, or 80kts.Works well.
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Old 3rd Feb 2007, 14:21
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If the guy is keeping the aircraft on the centreline at the 80kts then I think it's highly unlikely he's dead. They don't drive themselves you know!
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Old 3rd Feb 2007, 14:56
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CM , on our SOP states also , that if no answer at 80 kt call ,then PM will say 'my controlls' and abort the take-off.
What are the reasons for the 80 kt call? From what I know those are:
speed check
separation between the 2 phases of RTo: low energy and high energy RTO
incapacitation check
There are different levels of incapacitation,and the fact that the plane is tracking the cl doesn't allways mean that the PF is 100% on the job.Answering a call check,at a specific time, increases the certitude about his awareness..
I knew pilots,very experienced ones,who sometimes flew the plane 'on autopilot' (and I don't mean the airplane A/P) , while their mind was somewhere else. An interrogation check will always reveal such an incapacitation , dangerous due to lack of wareness.
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Old 3rd Feb 2007, 15:18
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part of the 80 knt call goes back to the 707 when the t/o power had to be set by 80 knts and a cross check of the instruments
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Old 3rd Feb 2007, 15:19
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c152pilot,
I guess the main reason is because BA flight operations think there's little chance of someone becoming incapacitated between setting take-off power and the a/c reaching 80kts. As a result, no response to the 80kts call is there to reduce 'unnecessary chatter' during an important part of the flight. Furthermore, no response will prevent unnecessary aborts due to communication cock-ups.

The 80kt call is there as a trigger to remind us that we no longer "stop for any failure". As Sean Dell says, it also reminds NHP to select Reverse Idle or Full Reverse as necessary.

You've probably noticed the lack of incapacitation check at the other end of the flight as there's no response to the "100 above" call on an instrument approach.

I guess in BA we retire early so there should be less chance of us collapsing at work ....
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Old 3rd Feb 2007, 17:56
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tyou are right no reply to the 100 above call but at DECIDE call if the PF does not responed then the PNF will exicute a goround.
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Old 4th Feb 2007, 00:51
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On the 777, the PM will say '80 kts' then the PF will say 'Hold' as a responce to the FMA changing its autothrottle mode.

What type do you operate? Maybe you have a similar FMA call ?
TAC inop. is offline  
Old 4th Feb 2007, 12:26
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I wonder if the fact that cautions and warnings are automatically inhibited on the take-off run? The Master Caution lights are usually inhibited from about 80kt on takeoff to 400ft and engine fire warning bells are therefore usually inhibited from approximately V1/VR to 400ft.
I see it as a reminder of that fact.
D'vay
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Old 4th Feb 2007, 13:40
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Big Bus : same idea, different speed = 100 kts

1> incapacitation check
2> up to a 100 kts we CAN stop for any caution/warning

speed > 100 kts : only allowed to stop for warnings, no cautions !
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Old 4th Feb 2007, 13:56
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Surprised that in BA and some other airlines the PNF operates the reverse in a high speed abort while presumably the captain stands on the anchors if not in RTO. Is that a Boeing recommended procedure?

What happens if slippery runway with crosswind where the aircraft can drift sideways and weathercock under reverse thrust sideways vector? I can see an awful lot of talking and hands in all directions from two pilots if that happens. Would it not be more safer and certainly easier and less confusing to have one man handling the full abort (the captain) while the First Mate monitors and initiates necessary radio calls etc?
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Old 4th Feb 2007, 16:19
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Boeing recommends the captain to keep hand on throttles after takeoff thrust is set,and perform the rto manouvre if necesary,no matter who is PF.
False Capture: about incapacity check during approach...what if there is no answer at call 'minimums' ..? This is on our sop the incapatitation call,where if no answer from PF the PM will assume controls and state his decision.
I've heard BA has many differences from average SOP,but you have to remember they are on the market for a long time now,and they have established they're own SOP,a good one if you learn it and stick with it.
There is no perfect SOP,but most are ok if you know and follow ,instead of trying to add or modify from older SOP's you've known.
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Old 4th Feb 2007, 16:34
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We follow the new boeing proc's in our company and we have to set T/O thrust by 60kts, the 80kts call is for incapacitatin and we will also get a change to throttle hold on our fma, which is annouced....BA do it differently, but i guess your going to get slight changes form company to company, not a massive issue, the only thing is that if you don't get a response at V1 your only option is to go, which does seem a little strange but there you go, oh and also following the standard boeing sop, the capt will do the abort as his hands are on the throttle until V1...
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Old 4th Feb 2007, 18:56
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A whole bunch of things happen at 80kts...(Boeings anyway)
1. Incapacitation check
2. Instrument x-check
3. Stopping for "any abnormality" has ended, and we now only stop for more serious things...
4. Master caution "attention getters" (lights and aurals) now inhibited
5. The autothrottle system disengages from the throttle servo gears and so cannot move a thrust lever until new selction on Thrust management coputer (earlier versions, or MCP on later models)


...I'm sure there's more, but I cant think at the mo...

Last edited by teamilk&sugar; 10th Feb 2007 at 11:43.
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Old 5th Feb 2007, 05:01
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We fly the classics and power must be set by 80 knots otherwise g/a thrust is set. Also it separates the low speed/high speed regime for abort decisions and instrument cross checks are done.
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Old 5th Feb 2007, 08:12
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TM&S

MASTER WARNINGS inhibited after 80kts.....really
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