Sim Scenario

[lgw bean flicker]

Hi all,
A colleague of mine recently had a Sim where she encountered the following scenario:
One engine failed, the other (a while afterwards) goes into Max Thrust and remains there.

I was just wondering if any BUS drivers had any recommendations as to immediate actions, and actions for a successful approach?

Cheers

The Bean

[mupepe]

Stay calm and fly the aircraft as for single engine first.
You might have excess thrust for later profile , plan landing to nearest suitable airport as maybe suggested by QRH for one engine approach/landing checklist.
Need dumping? don't know your a/c!
Is the upset engine controllable through automatic remote control?
check QRH.
Is your a/c have APU ?.......so use it nown !!
I believe the approach to be done with intermediate flaps position and the gear down may overcome the excess speed somewhat.
Anticipate & Fly the Approach normally keeping eyes to normal aircraft configuration limitations and, on short final, maybe shut down the "live" engine through fire shut off valve for landing.
Think on the consequence like Hydraulic system for steering ,reversers,braking, reason of electrical power from APU needed for essential and backup system on ground.
Land normally! and understand you have only one chance in that case!!.
(no go-around...this why you have to anticipate a bit)
hope this help you so far

[InSoMnIaC]

First of all i must admit I am not a BUS driver.

After a standard OEI climb out to a safe height and appropriate eng fail checklist. check if the failed engine is damaged of has simply suffered a flame out. if a flame out then I would consider restarting the failed engine and possibly shutting down the engine operating at max thrust before the approach in order to reduce thrust on approach if required. this will also provide for the option of OEI go around.. ie since u are not shutting down the live engine on short final.

[issi noho]

Can we have some more info on the scenario. Did the eng fail/shutdown happen at V1 or high lvl, was it fire/damage or flame out.

It could just be that inflight restart is in your 3 yrly cycle of abnormal/emergency drills and TRE was just trying to get them to think outside the square to acheive his aims.

[lgw bean flicker]

Thanks for your replies thus far,

I think one engine failed at V1 as is fairly standard, then during the repositioning for the approach the remaining engine went to TOGA.

Would you do anything different if it one failed at altitude (then the other went to TOGA instead of MCT?!)

The Bean

[issi noho]

I was interested to see if it was more of a loft ex or LPC/OPC And I'm assuming the later, I still think the TRE was just expanding the ex to incorporate a re-light which might have been disregarded by the crew. I personally think it is dangerous ground to use wacky scenarios to achieve an aim but not everybody is the same.

So as it stands,
1.first control the a/c, climb if nec rather than drag if speed is an issue.
2.ideally route to overhead an airfield in VMC
3.run checklist approp to problem, eng stuck in high thrust situ, this will determine if control can be regained; if this is not pos and c/l leads to shut down - Pause
4.if a relight is suitable/poss for the original failed engine, run the c/l for this and once started give it time to ensure its correct operation
5.re plan the approach give more thought to if you have any intention of going around; you might not want to since the engine failed at high demand also consider pax in brace if you have any doubts
6 brief the cabin- that should be fun. talk to pax
7 think a bit more
8 if you can talk to a maintenance control tell them what you're doing; be prepared to ignore any advice they offer. This is a commercial flight not a test flight- I'll run a huge risk by just saying HELIOS
9.shut down high thrust engine in acc with cl started in point3. be prepared for yaw and thrust requirement on remaining engine. Time limits will have been exceeded, who cares
10 fly app as planned and land
11 get really good, kiss ass do whatever it takes to become a tre and get your own back. It really will be sweet

I'm sure there's more to come or holes to be picked

[BRAKES HOT]

It could be a thrust lever fault and/or A/THR problem? check auto thrust is engaged and if so change A/P over to force switch over of A/THR channel. fly approach normally single engine and PNF shut down live engine upon touchdown.

[FullWings]

Brief for a glide approach?

[issi noho]

Just out of interest, If it came to a glide app, I'd prefer my chances from the overhead at 10000 (wx, electrics, hydraulics assumed fine) rather than all dragged up on an ILS. Thoughts anybody?

[FullWings]

If it came to a glide app, I'd prefer my chances from the overhead at 10000 (wx, electrics, hydraulics assumed fine) rather than all dragged up on an ILS. Thoughts anybody?

Unless you had no APU, all engines seized and weren't fitted with a RAT, in most types you are likely to have enough hydraulic/electric power to complete the approach.

How you fly a glide 'pattern' is up to you and your experience. I would suggest, however, that if you are unfamiliar with a particular method and/or have not worked out 'gates' in advance, it might be best to stick with what you know, i.e. an ILS if it's available.

For a jet transport, I would say a successful 'dead stick' landing has the aircraft touching down somewhere in the first 2/3rds of the runway, at a speed >= stalling. There are no points for 'landing' short of the threshold!

To fly a conventional circuit you really need some numbers, like how much height do you lose in a 180 turn, what the radius will be, what height at what distance you require in various configurations, etc. You can 'eyeball' it in VMC, maybe fly a military-style curving approach but it's all high workload stuff and will probably leave the other pilot (if you have one) out of the loop.

As I see it, there are some distinct advantages to flying a precision approach:

* You are in familiar territory with aircraft performance as you often follow an ILS glideslope at idle power. Okay, it won't be quite as good as normal but will be similar to having a headwind.

* On many types you will be able to engage the autopilot and couple to the LOC and G/S. This will free up mental capacity as you have reduced a 3-dimensional problem (height, position, speed) to a 1-dimensional one (speed only). Even if you have no automatics, you should have a flight director to follow.

* It's no different doing it at night or in low cloudbase/visibility. You're not relying on it being CAVOK when all your donks stop.

* Some aircraft will autoland in this condition. Sorted!

* You are purely engaged in energy management in a straight line. Monitoring is possible. Join the ILS at high speed, watch how you are doing as you get closer in. You have gear/speedbrake/flap to increase the drag with, although I would suggest leaving the gear until fairly late.

* You are going to end up in the normal landing area of the runway, so unless it is extremely limiting, you can carry excess speed, i.e. if you can land flapless in 'normal' operations you should have no problem if you've manged to get some out. <200kts on touchdown and you'll probably stop before the end.

* If you aren't confident that you can follow the G/S in the prevailing conditions you can do a LOC only approach and factor up the height required.

I'm not advocating doing an ILS "all dragged up" as this is probably doomed to failure. I am saying that flying a fast, clean ILS and configuring late seems to work well in the simulator and that both pilots can be involved in the monitoring and decision making...

[DBate]

* If you aren't confident that you can follow the G/S in the prevailing conditions you can do a LOC only approach and factor up the height required.

Tried that a couple of times in the simulator. Doubling all altitudes published for a standard 3° ILS works perfect when flying a both engines-out approach (on A320), and brings you into position for a nice touchdown within the touchdown zone (using more or less the standard approach speeds - with a higher sink rate of course).

[AlR]

Which Bus?

319/320/321/330?

Max Thrust? ...TOGA or MCT? Will Managed Speed control it? How about A/T off and use manual Thrust. It may be a A/T management problem. Really depends a lot on environmentals ,as well as, time to trouble shoot the situation. May not have the time to do so, configure early to slow it down or your speeds may creep up above limit speeds.


Near GWT and config for landing with one ENG inop will require 90% N1 or greater on N/P approach.

So let us know what the TRI expected.