Unprofessional, you decide.
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From: Hove
Unprofessional, you decide.
I have been following on another forum the increase of users of the SBS-1, which for the unaware is a receiver of Mode-S transmissions which are then listed for the user on a computer screen. To my knowledge spotters are not the only users of this equipment with a number of airlines having purchased some to locally track their fleets.
Today the following entry was noted by one user.
400659 F**KALL
Needless to say the callsign element was typed in full and I’ll leave the interested readers to check the hex code on the G-INFO site as to the company in question.
While I am not aircrew myself, but ex ops for a now deceased American company, I feel that this puts the crew member who entered that into his FMC as unprofessional.
Of course that callsign is contrary to CAA and ICAO requirements which state the aircraft ATC callsign should be used and if none then the aircraft registration substituted in its place.
Today the following entry was noted by one user.
400659 F**KALL
Needless to say the callsign element was typed in full and I’ll leave the interested readers to check the hex code on the G-INFO site as to the company in question.
While I am not aircrew myself, but ex ops for a now deceased American company, I feel that this puts the crew member who entered that into his FMC as unprofessional.
Of course that callsign is contrary to CAA and ICAO requirements which state the aircraft ATC callsign should be used and if none then the aircraft registration substituted in its place.
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From: Canada
Um, I don't think so ...
I do not believe that the FMC has anything to do with the ATC radar tag. I have entered the wrong flight number in the FMC before and ATC never said a thing about it. I always thought that those tags were stored in the ATC computer, and that when the transponder code comes up on radar, the ATC computer assigns the tag from memory.
Any ATCOs care to comment?
Any ATCOs care to comment?
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From: Hove
Its not on the radar tag directly but a separate "item".
To my knowledge London TCC now have a separate selectable list showing the stacks and the callsign comes from the Mode S readout along with the cleared level as input into the autopilot. It done so that if an aircraft enters a defined area around the stack it then appears on the list.
To my knowledge London TCC now have a separate selectable list showing the stacks and the callsign comes from the Mode S readout along with the cleared level as input into the autopilot. It done so that if an aircraft enters a defined area around the stack it then appears on the list.
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From: On a hill by EGLF
Not quite
During the several years of research and development that went into displaying Mode S data in TC it was decided that the callsign data the aircraft from couldn't be trusted - perfect example being the post that started this thread (plus M.Mouse, D.Duck etc).
The callsigns on the TC radar displays come from the filed flight plan
During the several years of research and development that went into displaying Mode S data in TC it was decided that the callsign data the aircraft from couldn't be trusted - perfect example being the post that started this thread (plus M.Mouse, D.Duck etc).
The callsigns on the TC radar displays come from the filed flight plan
Last edited by Crashing Software; 21st January 2006 at 19:59.
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From: U.S.A.
Our airline is equipped with ADS-B/CDTI. Continental has a dozen or so ADS-B transmit only aircraft (737's) and they transmit the ADS-B call sign entered into the FMC.
Every now and then, we see an ADS-B target with the call sign "SCAB".
People don't forget..........
Every now and then, we see an ADS-B target with the call sign "SCAB".
People don't forget..........
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From: Zone of Alienation
This document has some information on the enhanced surveillance telemetry:
http://www.eurocontrol.int/msa/galle...A%2020-12a.pdf
http://www.eurocontrol.int/msa/galle...A%2020-12a.pdf
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From: Hove
Thanks Crashing Software, didn't know that had changed.
I noticed that the CAA put out another reminder as part of AIC 4/2006 (yellow 187)
"Additionally, reports from various organisations that have been monitoring Mode S utilisation (including the Eurocontrol Airborne Monitoring Project (AMP), UK CAA and NATS London Terminal Control Centre) have highlighted consistent operator anomalies in the use of Aircraft Identification (sometimes referred to as Flight Identity or Flight ID)."
I noticed that the CAA put out another reminder as part of AIC 4/2006 (yellow 187)
"Additionally, reports from various organisations that have been monitoring Mode S utilisation (including the Eurocontrol Airborne Monitoring Project (AMP), UK CAA and NATS London Terminal Control Centre) have highlighted consistent operator anomalies in the use of Aircraft Identification (sometimes referred to as Flight Identity or Flight ID)."
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From: Correr es mi destino por no llevar papel
Great! In two years after installing expanded mode S xpndrs, only ATC to complain due to wrong callsigns being entered into FMS was London TMA because our pilots kept typing in IATA two letter airline code instead ICAO three letter. And now UK says it's unreliable, while the rest of the Europe never gave a darn about what we typed.
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I might be wrong, but here is how the system works in TC as I understand it.
Even when enhanced Mode S equipped, TC display your callsign on the radar using the code callsign data base, taking your callsign from the flight plan and using the A code(4096) assigned to the flight.
The Mode S details come from the FMS and show, selected flight level (displayed as an altitude below the transition level),ground speed,IAS and heading. The selected flight level is always shown, the other items are selectable.
We do not receive the aircraft callsign from the FMS.
Even when enhanced Mode S equipped, TC display your callsign on the radar using the code callsign data base, taking your callsign from the flight plan and using the A code(4096) assigned to the flight.
The Mode S details come from the FMS and show, selected flight level (displayed as an altitude below the transition level),ground speed,IAS and heading. The selected flight level is always shown, the other items are selectable.
We do not receive the aircraft callsign from the FMS.
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Sorry, I am confused by this.....I have a simple and clear question. When I type in the flight number to the FMS can ATC see it or not? Is it default or do they select it specially? ATCO's only plse!!!
My SOP is to type it in and i am under the impression u can see it. If it's wrong then I will know that I have been misinformed!!
My SOP is to type it in and i am under the impression u can see it. If it's wrong then I will know that I have been misinformed!!
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From: Berkshire, UK
Bomber Harris... Things have probably changed, but when I was working what we saw on the screen had nothing to do with what you input to the FMS apart from your transponder code. That code - as issued by ATC - was paired with the callsign from your FPLN by some sort of computery to provide a label on the radar display. So at the position of the a/c we had the callsign, altitude/FL from your Mode C and one or two other items for our use provided from the radar equipment. I understood that Mode S transmitted a unique code which could also be paired with information from a ground database to provide registration information. Hopefully someone better qualified can help here?
The SBS device in question is quite clever. Using a very simple antenna - something a WiFi antenna, it can display on a PC a picture similar to a radar display. Aircraft using Mode S are displayed in their correct positions using information transmitted from the a/c. To those who have never seen a radar it's a piece of real magic, but to those who have.... well......
The SBS device in question is quite clever. Using a very simple antenna - something a WiFi antenna, it can display on a PC a picture similar to a radar display. Aircraft using Mode S are displayed in their correct positions using information transmitted from the a/c. To those who have never seen a radar it's a piece of real magic, but to those who have.... well......
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From: 59°45'36N 10°27'59E
A quick google got this:
I agreee with HD, I don't think any ATC systems use Mode-S ident to give code/callsign correlation on the displays. (The Mode 3A will soldier on for some time)
The Mode-S/ADS-B transponders does give a lot of possibilites, and I imagine SMR systems will be the first to make full use of it. (And my hung over brain thinks that they might use Mode-S in SMR systems some places allready
)
I agreee with HD, I don't think any ATC systems use Mode-S ident to give code/callsign correlation on the displays. (The Mode 3A will soldier on for some time)
The Mode-S/ADS-B transponders does give a lot of possibilites, and I imagine SMR systems will be the first to make full use of it. (And my hung over brain thinks that they might use Mode-S in SMR systems some places allready
)
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From: Southampton
Hello Bomber
TC ATCO and I'm certain our callsigns originate from your filed flight plan rather than from your Transponder. For example a/c with Elementary Mode S or no Mode S at all still appear in our stack lists with their c/s.
So as Over & Out said, callsign from flight plan, all other data from your downlinked parameters.
As a slight aside I am really quite concerned about these SBS devices - potential for rather undesireable uses...
TC ATCO and I'm certain our callsigns originate from your filed flight plan rather than from your Transponder. For example a/c with Elementary Mode S or no Mode S at all still appear in our stack lists with their c/s.
So as Over & Out said, callsign from flight plan, all other data from your downlinked parameters.
As a slight aside I am really quite concerned about these SBS devices - potential for rather undesireable uses...
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From: Hove
I don't mind them having a laugh but swearing?
Given the replies to my original post I now wonder if the crew may have been on a ferry flight and put that into the FMC not being aware it got transmitted.
As for SBS being "potential for rather undesireable uses", you could say that radios and ACARS decoders would come under that heading but I don't think that's been the case, although I await corrections if I'm wrong.
Given the replies to my original post I now wonder if the crew may have been on a ferry flight and put that into the FMC not being aware it got transmitted.
As for SBS being "potential for rather undesireable uses", you could say that radios and ACARS decoders would come under that heading but I don't think that's been the case, although I await corrections if I'm wrong.
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From: UK
Given the replies to my original post I now wonder if the crew may have been on a ferry flight and put that into the FMC not being aware it got transmitted.