FAR/JAR Part 25 Transport Aircraft Performance Training Manuals
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FAR/JAR Part 25 Transport Aircraft Performance Training Manuals
Which books are recommended for understanding Transport Aircraft Performance requirements of FAR/JAR Part 25.
I have Airbus's Getting to Grips with Performance Manual and "Optimizing Jet Transport Efficiency". Are there others you would recommend?
I understand Boeing has a book titled "Performance Engineer's Handbook", is there any way to obtain a copy?
Thanks,
Rich Boll
Wichita Kansas
I have Airbus's Getting to Grips with Performance Manual and "Optimizing Jet Transport Efficiency". Are there others you would recommend?
I understand Boeing has a book titled "Performance Engineer's Handbook", is there any way to obtain a copy?
Thanks,
Rich Boll
Wichita Kansas
I'm quite a fan of P J Swatton's "Aircraft Performance Theory for Pilots", ISBN 0-63-05569-3 which in my opinion is very clear and easy to understand. It is written however around JAR requirements, and FAR requirements won't quite be identical.
G
G
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If you don't mind straining through the maths, there are a few undergraduate books available (a search on PPRuNe will locate the usual ones as this question comes up from time to time).
If you prefer a less intimidating approach, there are several nil or low maths books around .. one which comes to mind is (memory could be a bit off the mark as I don't have access to it now) H. H. Grover (or Glover ?) .. quite dated now but it was quite suitable for the pilot who wanted a bit more detail than might come from the typical airline conversion course.
Otherwise, a good source is to find a couple of AFMs and work through the examples.
Most of us who work in the area, or have done so, either came up through a mentored airline environment .. or learnt on the run using the above sources to get to the detail ...
If you prefer a less intimidating approach, there are several nil or low maths books around .. one which comes to mind is (memory could be a bit off the mark as I don't have access to it now) H. H. Grover (or Glover ?) .. quite dated now but it was quite suitable for the pilot who wanted a bit more detail than might come from the typical airline conversion course.
Otherwise, a good source is to find a couple of AFMs and work through the examples.
Most of us who work in the area, or have done so, either came up through a mentored airline environment .. or learnt on the run using the above sources to get to the detail ...
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Several people use'flying the wing'as a part25 guide..
Lufthansa issued a great little book on the same subject(part25 circa 1980??)
And swantons book covers the JAR stuff for the exams....
Cheers
Lufthansa issued a great little book on the same subject(part25 circa 1980??)
And swantons book covers the JAR stuff for the exams....
Cheers
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Thank folks!
Thanks for everyone who replied
I have "Fly the Wing". For those of you who might interested, an all-new updated 3rd edition of this book has been published just this summer. One of the late Captain Webb's students has taken over the writing dutes. He just retired from Jet Blue's training department and included their Airbus training CD with the book.
I'd like to find Lufthansa's book, but I hear it's been out of print for several years.
As for Boeing's book, I don't mind "pounds of paper". I have enough electronic docs on performance to tip a book shelf over on it's back!
I am looking for information beyond the pilot's need-to-know. I've spent the last 18 years studying performance, but the further I dig, the more I find I don't know, if this make sense.
I'm looking for an all-inclusive document, FAR or JAR rules.
Thanks again.
I have "Fly the Wing". For those of you who might interested, an all-new updated 3rd edition of this book has been published just this summer. One of the late Captain Webb's students has taken over the writing dutes. He just retired from Jet Blue's training department and included their Airbus training CD with the book.
I'd like to find Lufthansa's book, but I hear it's been out of print for several years.
As for Boeing's book, I don't mind "pounds of paper". I have enough electronic docs on performance to tip a book shelf over on it's back!
I am looking for information beyond the pilot's need-to-know. I've spent the last 18 years studying performance, but the further I dig, the more I find I don't know, if this make sense.
I'm looking for an all-inclusive document, FAR or JAR rules.
Thanks again.
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richjb,
"I've spent the last 18 years studying performance, but the further I dig, the more I find I don't know, if this make sense."
That comment confirms that you are a greybeard ... welcome to the club ...
JT
"I've spent the last 18 years studying performance, but the further I dig, the more I find I don't know, if this make sense."
That comment confirms that you are a greybeard ... welcome to the club ...
JT
Last edited by john_tullamarine; 17th Sep 2004 at 05:59.
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richjb,
I've spent the last 39 years studying performance, and putting it into practical application, but the further I dig, the more I find I don't know - and this is good, it keeps me on my toes (Mutt sure does whenever I make a slip).
Seriously though richjb, if you've spent 18 years studying performance, methinks it's time that you started putting it into practical application, you can't be a student forever. A good set of regulations, e.g. FAR25, a manufacturer's Performance Manual, and the AFM are your 'starter' kit. Take it from there. Oh, and of course, get right up to speed on serious computer programming.
There is a genuine need 'out there' for people with a foot in 2 camps, Professional Pilot and Performance Engineer.
(I'm amazed to see this question come from someone in Wichita, a local phone call to the P/E guys at Learjet or Cessna will probably satisfy your search).
Hang in there,
Smokey
I've spent the last 18 years studying performance, but the further I dig, the more I find I don't know, if this make sense.
Seriously though richjb, if you've spent 18 years studying performance, methinks it's time that you started putting it into practical application, you can't be a student forever. A good set of regulations, e.g. FAR25, a manufacturer's Performance Manual, and the AFM are your 'starter' kit. Take it from there. Oh, and of course, get right up to speed on serious computer programming.
There is a genuine need 'out there' for people with a foot in 2 camps, Professional Pilot and Performance Engineer.
(I'm amazed to see this question come from someone in Wichita, a local phone call to the P/E guys at Learjet or Cessna will probably satisfy your search).
Hang in there,
Smokey
Transparency International
So.. a question from Wichita, an answer from Singapore ...
Despite having already thrown in my 5 cents, I feel compelled to tell that last time I tried to get hold of a current Boeing document / manual it stranded on the absolute requirement of a Boeing customer no. / account no.
I've previously had some luck with the "used books" department of amazon.com
Despite having already thrown in my 5 cents, I feel compelled to tell that last time I tried to get hold of a current Boeing document / manual it stranded on the absolute requirement of a Boeing customer no. / account no.
I've previously had some luck with the "used books" department of amazon.com
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I was fairly confidient that Boeing would not sell me their manual. I need to search Amazon or Ebay to see if they have a copy.
The professional airline performance engineers would very supprised about how little the business jet pilot knows about performance or how it is taught in training schools.
For example, few pilots (US FAR 91 or 135) are aware of their OEI net takeoff flight path obstacle clearance requirements. Pilots are taught (routinely I might add!) to apply the OEI net 2nd segment climb gradient to the TERPS or PANS-OPS SID ft/nm climb gradient to ensure takeoff obstacle clearance. If you were to ask pilots what are FAA approved/accepted obstacle data sources, you'd get a blank stare back. Fewer pilot know the two methods methods use to meet OEI enroute clearance requirements. These pilots do not have performance engineering departments to fall back on. They must performance all performance calculations themselves prior to departure.
These topics are not taught in pilot performance training courses, nor are they covered in performance planning doucments provided by the manufacturer (business jets like Lear, Falcon, Hawker etc.) No manufacturer publishes a book similar to Airbus's "Getting to Grips with Performance". Therefore, no one's quite sure what they are to to with the charts contained in the AFM.
I'm a realitive new-commer compared to many of the people on this forum. I'm here to learn from you folks and increase my knowledge of the subject so I can pass it along to my fellow biz-jet pilots.
Take care and thanks,
Rich Boll
The professional airline performance engineers would very supprised about how little the business jet pilot knows about performance or how it is taught in training schools.
For example, few pilots (US FAR 91 or 135) are aware of their OEI net takeoff flight path obstacle clearance requirements. Pilots are taught (routinely I might add!) to apply the OEI net 2nd segment climb gradient to the TERPS or PANS-OPS SID ft/nm climb gradient to ensure takeoff obstacle clearance. If you were to ask pilots what are FAA approved/accepted obstacle data sources, you'd get a blank stare back. Fewer pilot know the two methods methods use to meet OEI enroute clearance requirements. These pilots do not have performance engineering departments to fall back on. They must performance all performance calculations themselves prior to departure.
These topics are not taught in pilot performance training courses, nor are they covered in performance planning doucments provided by the manufacturer (business jets like Lear, Falcon, Hawker etc.) No manufacturer publishes a book similar to Airbus's "Getting to Grips with Performance". Therefore, no one's quite sure what they are to to with the charts contained in the AFM.
I'm a realitive new-commer compared to many of the people on this forum. I'm here to learn from you folks and increase my knowledge of the subject so I can pass it along to my fellow biz-jet pilots.
Take care and thanks,
Rich Boll
