A320 Throttle question(s)
Guest
Posts: n/a
A320 Throttle question(s)
In another thread the following is stated with respect to the A320:
"pushing the throttles to the TOGA position"
From what I have read, this position causes the A320 to believe you want to execute a missed approach (or take off???) and does the appropriate magic...
What is this position? Is it the end of their travel, or is it something different?
What has me quite curious is that I expect their are conditions for take off (although perhaps not for a go around) that may demand different engine power (noise restrictions?). How does the magic of the A320 handle this?
"pushing the throttles to the TOGA position"
From what I have read, this position causes the A320 to believe you want to execute a missed approach (or take off???) and does the appropriate magic...
What is this position? Is it the end of their travel, or is it something different?
What has me quite curious is that I expect their are conditions for take off (although perhaps not for a go around) that may demand different engine power (noise restrictions?). How does the magic of the A320 handle this?
Guest
Posts: n/a
The Airbus thrustlevers has three detents, so to speak. TOGA is at the most forward TLA (Thrust Lever Angle.) There is Flex/MCT and then there is CLB.
For a max power T/Off or a go a round, TOGA is used. For a normal takeoff Flex/MCT is used. Flex means using less than max power, you would put the assumed temperature in the MCDU and the computer would calculate the thrust output required. The climb detent is used for, obviously, climb power, but this is also the detent used for cruise and descent.
Furthermore, this detent is also used for landing, unless A/THR is selected off.
For a max power T/Off or a go a round, TOGA is used. For a normal takeoff Flex/MCT is used. Flex means using less than max power, you would put the assumed temperature in the MCDU and the computer would calculate the thrust output required. The climb detent is used for, obviously, climb power, but this is also the detent used for cruise and descent.
Furthermore, this detent is also used for landing, unless A/THR is selected off.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Further to the above, I think you are trying to correlate modes with thrust lever movements.
If you are in approach mode with the autopilot in, and you move the thrust levers to "TOGA" (ie. full power, TOGA= (TakeOff/GoAround) then the automatics will give you full power and also follow the go-around track, provided this is in the computer already. The mode will change to "Go-Around Track". You can of course take it out of go-around track should you want to fly a heading say.
Bascially, the aircraft is reading what you want to do. It says, well, you are on the approach and now you want full power so you must want me to go-around, and that is what it will do, unless you stop it.
As mentioned, TOGA is only really used for TakeOff (when full power is needed) and for Go-Around situations.
Otherwise you remain in Climb detent, which is basically autothrust active "mode" and would I guess be the same as in a Boeing except the levers themselves don't move.
Pushing the thrust levers to the full forward "TOGA" position will always give you full power.
FLX/MCT, the middle gate, is used for take-off (as mentioned) and also in the event of an engine out condition.
On the take-off you can still go TOGA, one example is if you forget to set an assumed temperature, and you start the take-off roll, you would not abort (although it has been known), you would just go full forward to TOGA power.
Say you are doing a Flex take-off (reduced power) and you had an engine failure on take-off, then you would push the thrust leveres full forward, into TOGA detent, thus giving you full power on remaining engine.
At the appropriate time you would bring the thrust back to MCT (Max Continuous Thrust) on the good engine.
Alternatively when flying you can of course disconnect the autothrust and then the thrust levers are just like regular thrust levers.
If you are in approach mode with the autopilot in, and you move the thrust levers to "TOGA" (ie. full power, TOGA= (TakeOff/GoAround) then the automatics will give you full power and also follow the go-around track, provided this is in the computer already. The mode will change to "Go-Around Track". You can of course take it out of go-around track should you want to fly a heading say.
Bascially, the aircraft is reading what you want to do. It says, well, you are on the approach and now you want full power so you must want me to go-around, and that is what it will do, unless you stop it.
As mentioned, TOGA is only really used for TakeOff (when full power is needed) and for Go-Around situations.
Otherwise you remain in Climb detent, which is basically autothrust active "mode" and would I guess be the same as in a Boeing except the levers themselves don't move.
Pushing the thrust levers to the full forward "TOGA" position will always give you full power.
FLX/MCT, the middle gate, is used for take-off (as mentioned) and also in the event of an engine out condition.
On the take-off you can still go TOGA, one example is if you forget to set an assumed temperature, and you start the take-off roll, you would not abort (although it has been known), you would just go full forward to TOGA power.
Say you are doing a Flex take-off (reduced power) and you had an engine failure on take-off, then you would push the thrust leveres full forward, into TOGA detent, thus giving you full power on remaining engine.
At the appropriate time you would bring the thrust back to MCT (Max Continuous Thrust) on the good engine.
Alternatively when flying you can of course disconnect the autothrust and then the thrust levers are just like regular thrust levers.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Mr Benn, I am intrigued that you use TOGA if one blows on the roll (post V1). I fly the 330 and our company policy is to leave the levers and then deal with it at once attaining GD and climbing away from EO ACCEL ALT. This seems unnatural for me as now, if you did a FLX T/O, you must move the levers back to CLB, then up to MCT, or to TOGA and back. Is the way you described standard on all 320`s?
Guest
Posts: n/a
In my company we fly the A320, A321 and A330. For years on the A320 and A321 we have always set TOGA on both levers after an engine failure (assuming flez take off.) When doing our A330 course Airbus taught us their procedure which is to leave the levers in the FLX/MCT gate. However our company procedures require us to set TOGA (slowly on the 330 !) on all three types for commanality, are we the only ones doing this?
[This message has been edited by longarm (edited 01 September 2000).]
[This message has been edited by longarm (edited 01 September 2000).]
Guest
Posts: n/a
We set TOGA initially, I always figured it was because, if you are wanting to climb away from the ground, why use reduced power on the good engine when you can have full power?
We may maintain TOGA for 10 minutes if necessary.
We don't do anything below 400 feet radio, apart from going TOGA if its an engine problem, raising the gear if appropriate, cancelling all the noises and engaging the autopilot if we can. Then its the initial ECAM actions and also we may have an emergency turn (company thing).
At acceleration altitude we go V/S zero and retract flaps/slats. Once clean, and at green dot we go "expedite climb", reduce to MCT and then climb up to MSA at green dot speed.
Jtr, what's the problem with going to TOGA and then later back to MCT?
Is there a reason why your company chooses not to use all the power available? Is it what Airbus now recommend? Do they recommend it for the A330 and why?
Interesting...
We may maintain TOGA for 10 minutes if necessary.
We don't do anything below 400 feet radio, apart from going TOGA if its an engine problem, raising the gear if appropriate, cancelling all the noises and engaging the autopilot if we can. Then its the initial ECAM actions and also we may have an emergency turn (company thing).
At acceleration altitude we go V/S zero and retract flaps/slats. Once clean, and at green dot we go "expedite climb", reduce to MCT and then climb up to MSA at green dot speed.
Jtr, what's the problem with going to TOGA and then later back to MCT?
Is there a reason why your company chooses not to use all the power available? Is it what Airbus now recommend? Do they recommend it for the A330 and why?
Interesting...
Guest
Posts: n/a
We leave them in the FLX detent on both the 330 and 340. The difference between leaving them, and pushing them up results in a big performance diff if it`s a high FLX. My philosophy is that the thrust is there to be used, but clearly my philosophy does not coincide with the company`s.
edit starts here...
In reference to going up to TOGA and back to FLX, there is no problem with it, it just seems stupid for us to do it when the A/C is stabilised (sort of) and one is only doing it to induce a mode change. We don`t leave them in the TOGA detent.
As for e/o procedure, same dog different leg action... We touch nothing till 400`, then secure engine, and pop bottles if needed, wait till 1500 (or whatever) push the ALT button, finish off the c/list, pull for OPEN CLB at GD, theeeen, if it was a FLX TO either push them up to TOGA and straight back to MCT (won`t get you smacked in the sim), or pull them back to CLB, then straight up to MCT (to the letter of the SOP`s, but will still get you smacked by most sim guys). If its been a high FLX temp, sticking them up to TOGA and back, even momentarily makes for an uncomfortable feeling, if it`s been a low FLX temp, then bringing them back and up gives that sinking feeling. This has been the SOP for at least 4 years on both 330 and 340. I don`t like it a lot, TOGA sound good to me, but I`m not paid to think about these types of things.
[This message has been edited by jtr (edited 01 September 2000).]
[This message has been edited by jtr (edited 01 September 2000).]
edit starts here...
In reference to going up to TOGA and back to FLX, there is no problem with it, it just seems stupid for us to do it when the A/C is stabilised (sort of) and one is only doing it to induce a mode change. We don`t leave them in the TOGA detent.
As for e/o procedure, same dog different leg action... We touch nothing till 400`, then secure engine, and pop bottles if needed, wait till 1500 (or whatever) push the ALT button, finish off the c/list, pull for OPEN CLB at GD, theeeen, if it was a FLX TO either push them up to TOGA and straight back to MCT (won`t get you smacked in the sim), or pull them back to CLB, then straight up to MCT (to the letter of the SOP`s, but will still get you smacked by most sim guys). If its been a high FLX temp, sticking them up to TOGA and back, even momentarily makes for an uncomfortable feeling, if it`s been a low FLX temp, then bringing them back and up gives that sinking feeling. This has been the SOP for at least 4 years on both 330 and 340. I don`t like it a lot, TOGA sound good to me, but I`m not paid to think about these types of things.
[This message has been edited by jtr (edited 01 September 2000).]
[This message has been edited by jtr (edited 01 September 2000).]
