Wig Wag

arcniz:-

That was one of the best posts I have read on PPRUNE.

HercBird

For those of you that continue to read this post, I aspire to start my PPL in the next few months. I also believe that I have the sky, flying, airplanes and all of the related subjects in my blood, maybe because I was almost born inside an airplane.

While I understand that some posts by people of my unprofessional standing within these forums are naive or stupid, and that this can be very annoying to the professionals, I would hate to see my access to this site removed. It wouldn't be, many of you will say, but the point is, if you can post to the "unprofessional" forums or the limited one, which one would you post to ?

It would be a loss of information, enjoyment and education for people like me. Granted, this forum is meant to mainly service you, but are we, the rest, that much of a hinderance ?

I spend most of my time in these forums reading and educating myself and in everyone of my limited amount of posts, I believe I have made an effort of explaining my unprofessional status. I have only posted asking for more information on something I am not aware off but would love to learn from a professional, or in very few occassions, to make the view of the "amateur" known.

So, for the summary, please do not judge all of us non-professionals by the posts of a select annoying few and take away this source of aviation life from us. The moderators do an excellent job of weeding out the provocative posts, and when a post is not worth the virtual space it occupies, you are professional enough to recognize and ignore.

The non-professional's point of view...

Kiteflyer

I wish I had never registered. Occasionally I feel an urgent desire to post on here although I do not professionally pilot anything. It would help my addiction if I was removed/banned/outcast from this site.

In fact it would be even better if you could stop me reading posts on here as well!

Some of the things the "Professional Pilots" say to each other scare me to death!

As I leave I must say Raw Data, BEagle and strangely enough 411A are the three I would most like to be in an aircraft with when it was 23,000 miles from the nearest pub and the wings fell off.

What a crew up front!!! and I bet we would all walk away from the rough landing.

HouchinCable

Not been on the site for a LONG time. Wow what a change, looks GREAT!

:o Anyway to the point.

The thread ‘Can we have a new forum please’ is precisely why I’ve not been back for so long. PPRuN is full of C—P from people I have no interest in hearing from.

If it were possible to canvas the opinion of only, Professional Pilots then you know as well as the rest of us that close to 100% would be in favour of having their own forum. This common knowledge alone should justify the setting up of a forum on the lines of the ‘Airline Specific Private Forums’ as soon as possible.

Why do you think the ‘Airline Specific Private Forums’ are so popular? It’s not just so they can bitch about the firm. A major factor is that they know they won’t have a screen full of posts from clowns that know nothing about the topic!

PPPP (Professional Pilot Private Pages)

Stampe

Great idea I hardly ever post nowadays as I see a decline in the quality of the forum.To make it easy for the moderators suggest only those registered with the UK specific airline forums which are already in being can post.These forums have already been filtered so little extra work would be required.This site can then gain some of its credibilty back.

AnsettStar

Okay, I'm preparing to be told off big time for even daring to stick my "wannabee" head in here but I think I have a point.

Firstly, well said Tom. I totally agree. I concede that there are some posts and people on these forums that just tick me off no end.

Secondly, I have great respect for those of you who are fortunate enough to have such a fantastic opportunity to make a career out of doing something you love. I ocasionally post on these boards and since I'm not a rated pilot I guess I'd be a "wannabe".

My reasons for coming to these forums is precisely to get an idea of what the industry is like from those who actually work there.

Thirdly, I agree that the "proper" (and I use the term loosely) pilots should have their own private forum. However, don't exclude us just because we don't have a piece of paper making us licensed. I got enough crap from males about women aviators and don't really want to start on the license issue.

I don't want to start a big rant debate, but please don't write all of us off just because we're not CPL or ATPL......okay?

AnsettStar - not licensed but soon will be

FOUR REDS

Stampe,

But what about the guys/girls in-between jobs and kicked out of their Airline Forum. Also, do other pro pilots, like BizJet jockeys, not qualify.

For example, I am a jet captain, looking for another job, whilst in the meantime involved in an affiliated industry.

Admittedly your suggestions is a good basis to help Pprune Towers to get started. Then a system for adding those I mentioned above can be devised.

:o :o :o :o

HouchinCable

Stampe & FOUR REDS – I would propose it’s open to all “PP” that’s CPL and up regardless of employment state.

Electric Sky – Nothing is impossible! There are many ways of achieving this, if the will is there.

norodnik

If the dissenting pilots want their own forum, then go start one. The whole idea of a forum is to get a broad range of opinions, not all of them will necessarily be informed but thats the fun of it.

To have a forum just for pilots is all well and good but it will no doubt eventually lead to the same questions being asked as at this very time.

I only post a few times and have already been slagged off for being an "armchair idiot". I used to fly, was in the air force, my father spent his whole life in aviation. However, as I had to move on to other things its like I have no idea whatsoever.

So perhaps change the name to , Current Professional Pilots etc etc.

I enjoy reading these forums very much. Its one of the few places to communicate with those who know. Its very easy to ignore posts which have no substance but most of the time the PP's seem to have more fun slagging then examining the point raised.

Finally, I work in computing as well, and was a security consultant. Unless you have access to certain proprietary information and then want to invest a lot of time and money, it will be almost impossible to setup a airline agnostic forum just for PP's. Happy to offer advice on how to if you're interested.

ADC

Dear Capt. Houchin Cable

1. One of the basics of being a professional pilot might be the ability to spell " Professional"

2. Who do you think is going to do all the hard the work to check the "Professional" nature of people who want to use this forum of yours? The Admins at PPRuNe ? Do you think they have nothing better to do with their time? This site is what it is, an extrememly successful aviation forum, catering for a wide variety of interests and tastes within the aviation community, set up and run by professionals in their spare time !. It just about covers it's costs with advertising.


Please read some of the posts above. If you want to start your own website and run your own "Profesional Pilats Privit Foram", Go ahead.

We'll miss you

ADC

teropa

Well well ... How should I start ? Maybe some background information first.

This armchair pilot has had aviation as a VERY serious hobby for 14 years. I have been flying with my father in single-engine planes since he got his PPL, and subsequent CVFR, IR and CPL ratings. I have, how should I put it, a _lot_ of "unofficial" stick time in small planes, and am quite skilled in flying, say a 172.
But guess what? I don't have a PPL and couldn't afford one at the moment. Instead, I'll be getting my M.Sc in electrical engineering in one year, after which I will be applying for professional training programs to become a professional pilot.

I also happen to be a RC-plane fanatic, and love flying those little things. In fact, I had no trouble in learning to fly such a thing on my own, as opposed to how people _should_ do it.

Apart from these, I also LOVE flight simulators and "flying" with them. Yes, I use FS2002 daily (!), mostly with my beloved PIC767 addon which is a phenomenal package of "flying" put inside a 21" monitor (in my case). There are _MANY_ airline pilots in the simming world who will tell you that _that_ particular addon is as close as it gets...

So. Maybe my knowledge of real-life aviation is not enough, given I've only flown small planes, and not jets. Maybe my knowledge of airliner systems and such is minimal, given that I know the B767 type FMC and the rest of the aircraft systems like the back of my hand. I have only used like the past 10 years reading _everything_ I can get my hands on, that handles professional aviation. I am familiar with just about everything there is to know about professional flying (what happens in the front). I just recently had a chance to fly a LEVEL D MD-11 simulator, and had no problems in flying and landing the sim in IMC, although I have zero flight-training, let alone flight-time in the jet. I'm as enthusiastic as they come.

BUT...

I STILL don't understand the fact that _some_ of you professional aviators (or would you like to be called super-heros instead?) think that flying is something so very very special and "above anything else" that you think you can call other people IDIOTS, only because they don't have an ATPL in their pocket. I'd like to suggest a quick reality-check for those in question !

The moral of this post?

In today's world of free media and super highways of information available, many people know a lot about things that they do NOT professionally do. That doesn't make them all ignorant, however.
Flying is nothing mystical or something to get an egotrip from. Pilots are not gods. I think you should start to recognize the fact that it's a profession that can be disussed with "normal" people as well as the professionals themselves, just like any other profession...

I DO agree that some of the wannabees and armchair pilots (probably teenagers with nothing else to do) have voiced some stupid stuff in PPrune, but you should just ignore those kind of posts.

This is my honest opinion and I'm not disrespecting professional pilots in general, not at all! I intend to become one myself later in my life, but I do criticize those who get bothered by other people because their ego is so massive that it needs its own field to play in.

cheers,
Tj

Desk Driver

As a professional Desk Driver with 17 years in the business and not a Professional pilot I can see where your coming from. Nobody wants an Airlin***.not kind of forum where it's so out of control you don't see the same thread twice. I also agree that some people on here can half post some rubbish at times however the Mod's do a very good job here and most is weede out.

So before you decide, you need to consider the 2 following things.

1) If you become an elite bunch in your private forum then numbers outside would dwindle to such levels that PPRUNE would no longer be free. you may be willing to pay,but how much?

2) I and many others hear a lot of relevant information around our place of work that perhaps you don't. We also can have very informed opinions from a very different angle to yours. If you want to go into a private forum and compare each others equipment and companies because that's what you'll end up doing then fine I'll leave right now. We all have the ability to report malicous or irrelevant posts to the Mod's. Lets use that instead.

lomapaseo

I see we have another biased poll to lead to inaccurate answers.
The poll heading suggests that to participate in the poll you belong to a special grouping i.e. "As a profesional pilot....."

yet some of the questions state

"I am not a PP..........." yes/no

Standard_Departure

As an Air Traffic Controller, I would be saddened by my exclusion from these pages, I have gained plenty of insight from other aviation enthusiasts on this forum and also provided lots of information to pilot's (and others) who ask for it.

I vote NO !!

BlueEagle

So, some of you think you would like a "Pilots Only Forum" then?

Ever been to a pilots meeting? Obviously not. Pilots, by tradition, don't listen but Oh do they love to talk!

Is it not a bit sad that some of you find yourselves unable to distinguish between the various types of aviation interested, (at all levels), people, weigh what they have to say, apply your own intelligence and knowledge, ("take it whence it came"), and develop for yourself a picture?

Do you have to jump on every technical detail and stamp it to death whilst often missing the main thrust of a non-flyers argument?

As the privileged professionals of one of natures most loved pastimes should we not enjoy hearing from interested people from all walks of life and be pleased that, because of our cherished knowledge, we are able to discuss and enlighten?

Why should people assume that because they have come to the internet a great filter will have been applied and they will only read hard unchallenged fact?
The whole point of a forum is to collect and colate both knowledge and opinion from which we can all learn. If people who clearly have no knowledge are prepared to take the risk of making statements here on PPRuNe that can be shot down then obviously those statements will and one has to hope that such people will learn accordingly. Much of what people who do not share our professional position say is, in any event, good common sense that is well worth consideration.

As professionals we should be able to pick our way through the various patches of uncertainty and ignorance, persevere with fact and educated opinion and still maintain a balanced approach to any topic.

And, apart from all that, Danny has already said, many times, that the open forum is the way to go as it is education in all directions and that can only be to the common good.

We should never forget that PPRuNe is not the Authority speaking, it is not your manuals or SOP but it is all about education, information, and recreation, for all of us.

Time to move on.

huw stunn

The job I do here at Waterslide supports all you Nigel's, but I only infrequently get a chance to talk to any of you. Having access to PPRUNE at least gives me a flavour of some of your issues, and indeed wider industry issues outside the wacky world of BA.

If you would prefer that I knew nothing of your issues, then - go ahead, have your own forum so you can rant and rave to your pilot colleagues in supreme isolation, without the worry that any of us support guys know what is bothering you and heaven forbid either agree with you, or have a justifiable alternative view.

teropa

BlueEagle,

One word: Outstanding!

Tj

Proceed As Cleared

It appears to me, that certain protagonists, who are in favour of their own "playground", have been professional pilots from birth (never have been wannabes, never flown in GA).
A truly remarkable "career".

It also seems as if, blinded by their self esteem to be one of the "elite", they do not consider it necessary to have a fruitful discussion about aviation related matters with such irrelevant professionals like engineers, hosties, ATCOs, and so on. :o

BOAC

Blue Eagle - 100%+ endorsement. As you say, time to move on. It is a bit like watching a TV programme and then complaining about it - if you don't like what you see, you don't have to read it.
PPrune is all the richer for the inputs from 'the rest' of our world.

interestedparty

Looks to me like a profession that can't decide whether it wants the pilots regarded similarly to master mariners, or to well paid bus drivers.
There is a subtle(!) difference in the public's perception of the two.
A degree of gravitas is no bad thing if you seek approbation of your professional role.
Immoderate comments, outlandish sentiments, and so on, do not sit easily with positions of responsibility and trust........