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Virgin Atlantic

Old 7th May 2020, 18:33
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Originally Posted by 101917 View Post
As an example, it is probable that if a company wanted to get rid of a whole fleet – B747 – then that would not be seen as being discriminatory because those positions would no longer be available. However, if a company was to make all the most junior captains and first officers on a fleet, (based solely on LIFO), redundant because they were reducing the numbers of aircraft operated, then that would probably be seen by the courts to be discriminatory. It would also allow those pilots the right of appeal against their compulsory redundancy.
The key word there is solely. That is exactly how Flybe were going to chop people in 2013. However they used a matrix with lifo being the most dominant factor. God knows how BA want to do it (aside from an equal number of Captains and FOs) because Balpa are not telling us at the moment, I’m sure at the equivalent point in this process back then we already knew who was at risk.
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Old 7th May 2020, 19:22
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Can anyone tell me the maximum age for a Type Rating Conversion Course in VAA...is it 57 or 62?
If still 57 then the B744 Captains will be gardening soon,
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Old 7th May 2020, 19:35
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Virgin Atlantic’s planned 3,150 job cuts will show the airline is taking “self-help” measures and help it to win financial support from either the British government or a private sector investor, an internal memo to pilots seen by Reuters said.In an internal memo dated May 6 which was addressed “Dear Pilots”, the airline said that it only needed 550 pilots out of about 1,000 currently, and that shedding jobs would help it win new investment.

“In order for us to qualify for financial support from HM Government or the private sector it is critical that we demonstrate that we have taken all self-help measures in a timely fashion so we can secure the funding we need to survive,” the memo said.

When asked about the memo, Virgin, which is in a consultation period with unions over the redundancies, said it continued to explore options for additional funding with the government and private investors.

Sad times.
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Old 7th May 2020, 21:36
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Originally Posted by B744IRE View Post
Can anyone tell me the maximum age for a Type Rating Conversion Course in VAA...is it 57 or 62?
If still 57 then the B744 Captains will be gardening soon,
what is the point of this very insensitive post?!
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Old 7th May 2020, 22:07
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A320 Baby...the point is...when the retirement age was increased to 65 VAA conveniently forgot to raise the maximum age for a type conversion course from 57 to 62 (3 years remaining). This gave the company an 8 year window to get rid of senior B744 pilots should the need arise.
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Old 8th May 2020, 08:49
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Originally Posted by xray one View Post
James7 wrote:



please can you back this up with solid evidence? If not just stop spouting your 'best guess'
Richard Branson : "The challenge right now is that there is no money coming in and lots going out."

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/r...-a4418496.html

No spouting required. Same for most airlines as previously stated.
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Old 8th May 2020, 10:03
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A320 Baby...the point is...when the retirement age was increased to 65 VAA conveniently forgot to raise the maximum age for a type conversion course from 57 to 62 (3 years remaining). This gave the company an 8 year window to get rid of senior B744 pilots should the need arise.
An anomaly which I understand was fixed several years ago when the 787 introduction was under way. It's no longer an issue.
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Old 8th May 2020, 10:18
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Originally Posted by procede View Post
$1 m a month sounds like a long term financial lease. Ironically, it is actually easier (and cheaper) to get rid of owned aircraft than leased aircraft (under normal economic circumstances). Owned aircraft you can just sell, leased aircraft require all sorts of negotiation and legal work, especially if the lease has not expired yet... Even when the lease term is over, there are lots of loopholes to jump through.
Right now, whoever had their engines under power-by-hour is laughing their way to the bank. Or well, probably the rest of plane is still under monthly lease, so it's more like they cry somewhat less than their competitors...

Last edited by keitaidenwa; 8th May 2020 at 10:18. Reason: typo
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Old 8th May 2020, 13:09
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Originally Posted by keitaidenwa View Post
Right now, whoever had their engines under power-by-hour is laughing their way to the bank. Or well, probably the rest of plane is still under monthly lease, so it's more like they cry somewhat less than their competitors...
The power by the hour only covers spares and maintenance costs. You still need to pay a fixed amount for the engine itself. I think the extra savings will thus be quite limited.
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Old 9th May 2020, 12:13
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Originally Posted by keitaidenwa View Post
Right now, whoever had their engines under power-by-hour is laughing their way to the bank. Or well, probably the rest of plane is still under monthly lease, so it's more like they cry somewhat less than their competitors...
The only thing that anyone can say for certain is that the bigger the airline/group the higher the likelihood of gaining attractive terms from its creditors. Smaller airlines will conversely be allowed to fail.
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Old 9th May 2020, 12:27
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Originally Posted by MCDU2 View Post
The only thing that anyone can say for certain is that the bigger the airline/group the higher the likelihood of gaining attractive terms from its creditors. Smaller airlines will conversely be allowed to fail.
This is not necessarily the case. Creditors will lean towards those companies who can repay their debt and service it properly, irrespective of size. The exception ( and perhaps what you are alluding to) is where lenders are so heavily over-exposed that allowing the company to fail will immediately crystallize enormous losses.Here there is a willingness to kick the can down the road; keep it going with the hope it gets better or the tough descisions will at least fall on someone else's shoulders. Hence the rise of zombie companies who cannot realistically pay back their debt and can't make real profits because of their debt servicing. In our industry I would cite Thomas Cook Group, and currently Norwegian. Many many others are heading down the same path.
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Old 9th May 2020, 13:23
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Sky news are reporting at 1250 today that, Virgin Atlantic Airways has put advisers on standby to handle a potential administration as it races to secure a £500m rescue that would enable Sir Richard Branson’s flagship company to survive the coronavirus pandemic.
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Old 9th May 2020, 17:35
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Saw a vs 330 on its way to donnie today, surprised not already parked away from an expensive lhr.
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Old 9th May 2020, 18:05
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Hence the rise of zombie companies who cannot realistically pay back their debt
No surprise really that organisations are now run like most countries of the world.
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Old 9th May 2020, 18:06
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G VGBR positioned LHR - DSA followed by G VSXY
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Old 9th May 2020, 18:55
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Delta won’t be happy if their share of VS is wiped out in any administration process.
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Old 9th May 2020, 22:15
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Originally Posted by fruitbat View Post
Delta won’t be happy if their share of VS is wiped out in any administration process.
I don't think they care right now, they are too consumed by trying to save their own skin.
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Old 10th May 2020, 00:04
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Originally Posted by fruitbat View Post
Delta won’t be happy if their share of VS is wiped out in any administration process.

If they are worried they should put their hands in their very deep pockets.

As suggested I don't think they care right now, they have bigger things to worry about
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Old 10th May 2020, 05:44
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Originally Posted by fruitbat View Post
Delta won’t be happy if their share of VS is wiped out in any administration process.
Delta won't care about their 49%, their primary interest will be in their own survival. Digging out a minority-owned subsidiary won't be top of their list, or second, or third, or fourth....

VA (just VA, I am going to use initials like most humans), is not a major player and therefore won't be HMG's primary occupation, no matter which website site owner flies in the left-hand seat.

I am not saying that I agree with any of the above, but HMG simply does not have the latitude to engage in secondary players. PAYE etc income will be immaterial and probably doesn't matter if BA or VA writes the monthly cheque to HMC&E. There's only so many people and planes that will be flying this time next month/year/decade, and it doesn't matter what the paint scheme is - it does matter if HMG is pissing good money after bad....

Then there is NATS, most of whom's income come from Trans-Atlantic routes, again, no matter what the paint scheme.


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Old 10th May 2020, 07:30
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Originally Posted by Banana4321 View Post
- it does matter if HMG is pissing good money after bad....
HMG are pissing away billions already to save the already very old and frail.

So why not spend a bit more on carriers that the Government have single handedly driven to bankruptcy.


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