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Virgin Atlantic

Old 22nd Apr 2020, 17:37
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Originally Posted by Pilot DAR View Post
WARNING!

Moderating the inappropriate posts on this thread, and responding to a number of reports of rude posts is getting to be too much work. I have not locked the thread, but I'm thinking about it. In the midst of the inappropriate posts is some good discussion, which I would like to encourage. If you would like the thread to continue, don't abuse it.

One of your moderators.
Hear hear!
An excellent time to step in , some of my posts were a little inflamed, during this hot topic
there she blows is online now  
Old 22nd Apr 2020, 17:53
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https://news.sky.com/story/coronavir...antic-11977216

Delta expect virgin to enter administration.
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Old 22nd Apr 2020, 18:00
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Originally Posted by nowhereasfiled View Post
...Delta expect virgin to enter administration.
This could actually help the VS bid for £500m Treasury funding (assuming they resubmit it), as when their first bid was knocked back it was stated they hadn't done enough to prove they had exhausted investment from their shareholders. This provides evidence DL can't/won't provide any.
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Old 22nd Apr 2020, 18:00
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Angry

Oh dear !!
So why is Branson not going to the credit markets ?
His island is woth didly squat , only what some other billionaire will pay and I guarentee its not worth $100million as he claims .
Come Branson , show you really want your airline , pay through the nose just like Carnival Cruise did to get their cash needed.
At this rate your hardly convincing anyone that you REALLY want to save it !!
Govt and taxpayers will not fund you ... do the right thing and step up to the credit markets !!!
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Old 22nd Apr 2020, 18:44
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Originally Posted by nowhereasfiled View Post
https://news.sky.com/story/coronavir...antic-11977216

Delta expect virgin to enter administration.
The linked article doesn't contain any such prediction by Delta.
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Old 22nd Apr 2020, 18:54
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Branson has an emotional attachment to VS, so hopefully, something will happen. A real shame, VS had turned a corner in recent years and about to become profitable then focus on expansion. A rather depressing thought that the only UK carrier out of LHR will be BA. I still think VS will find the money. Otherwise, I look forward to the new airline that steps in and takes over from Virgin. I'm sure the new airline will have amazing Ts and Cs and won't use agencies/contract pilots thus further degrading our industry...not.

Interestingly, everyone (UK public, not this forum) seems very concerned about a loan of £500m of public money, but I wonder if these same people are that vocal and against £106 billion spend on HS2. A complete farce.

Also interesting that the government have told Wizz Air they qualify for the Covid Financing Facility. A non-UK company with 1.5 billion in the bank. Regardless if Wizz has a UK subsidiary or not, if we're going by the mantra that the parent should have the responsibility over it's children (Branson and Virgin) surely the same should apply.
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Old 22nd Apr 2020, 19:03
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Yes it does, in the very first sentence.

Sir Richard Branson's co-investor in Virgin Atlantic has ruled out injecting cash into the struggling airline - and indicated he expects it to go into administration.

I really hope he’s wrong.

ATB

LD
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Old 22nd Apr 2020, 19:09
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Red face

LCCs Wizz Air and Ryanair lead the way, with liquidity at 48% and 47% of revenue Ė equivalent to 176 days and 170 days of revenue respectively.
I read somewhere that Ryanair are incurring costs of less than a million Euro's a month.

At the other end of the scale is Norwegian, with liquidity at 7% of revenue, or 26 days
Any one know what VS has ?
The UK Govt will not float very low levels of liquidity with the potential loss to Tax payers when subsequently going into administration..... Boris would lose a lot of supporters
VS I fear is soon to become UK airline history.
Perhaps Ryanair will rebrand it ?
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Old 22nd Apr 2020, 19:23
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Good luck everyone

Branson is no different to Bishop, Laker, Keegan, Stocks, Walsh etc. etc. They all retreat to their tax havens pleading poverty while the troops at the coal face take the hit. The industry has been smoke and mirrors for decades and a profitable airline is a myth...the BA pension fund deficit cancels out any profits they make. Independent airlines surrounded the core business with ďsuppliersĒ charging extortionate rates for services...sucking the life blood out of the business...sorry times are hard, oil prices are high, you canít have a pay rise...sound familiar? Final salary pensions go down the drain when an airline goes broke and after paying 25% of my salary into a money purchase scheme my pot has dropped 30%...only retired BA final salary retirees are immune...hence BA no longer offer a final salary scheme. Thank God Iím retired...good luck everyone, whoever you work for!
Maybe someone who REALLY cares about their employees and the airline industry will step forward and employ amazing positive people.
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Old 22nd Apr 2020, 20:04
  #270 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Locked door View Post
Yes it does, in the very first sentence.

Sir Richard Branson's co-investor in Virgin Atlantic has ruled out injecting cash into the struggling airline - and indicated he expects it to go into administration.

I really hope heís wrong.
With respect, that's Sky News's spin on what Bastian may or may not expect, hence its use of those weasel words "[he] indicated [that]", but it isn't supported anywhere in the article by a direct quote from the Delta CEO.

The nearest he gets is "If they are required to go through an administrative process ...", but he stops short (understandably) of predicting that's what's going to happen.
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Old 22nd Apr 2020, 20:09
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Originally Posted by nowhereasfiled View Post
https://news.sky.com/story/coronavir...antic-11977216

Delta expect virgin to enter administration.
I suspect the delta boss thinks the UK administration process is just like the convenient US Chapter 11 fall back option ... It isn't!
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Old 22nd Apr 2020, 20:26
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Originally Posted by Joe le Taxi View Post
I suspect the delta boss thinks the UK administration process is just like the convenient US Chapter 11 fall back option ... It isn't!
I think you are correct, he doesnít realise the difference.
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Old 22nd Apr 2020, 21:50
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Ed Bastian elaborated more on this in an interview with CNBC:

Well, on the Delta front, we are not in a position to invest any more money into Virgin. We’re already at the ownership cap of 49%. And candidly with the cash that we need to protect our own business, that’s where our focus is. I trust Virgin will work through its challenges with the government and with Richard.


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Old 22nd Apr 2020, 23:30
  #274 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by wisecaptain View Post
LCCs Wizz Air and Ryanair lead the way, with liquidity at 48% and 47% of revenue Ė equivalent to 176 days and 170 days of revenue respectively.
I read somewhere that Ryanair are incurring costs of less than a million Euro's a month.

At the other end of the scale is Norwegian, with liquidity at 7% of revenue, or 26 days
Any one know what VS has ?
The UK Govt will not float very low levels of liquidity with the potential loss to Tax payers when subsequently going into administration..... Boris would lose a lot of supporters
VS I fear is soon to become UK airline history.
Perhaps Ryanair will rebrand it ?
Liquidity doesnít mean too much.
What matters is parent companies, credit lines and/or governmentsí help.

Even if you have 10 months liquidity in the bank which a few airlines do have there is no way itís going to be enough.
Also, surviving alone wonít be enough as when they slowly start opening countries the losses will be deep as there will be months and months of reduced flying with few (scared) passengers.

Most airlines will survive but it wonít be thanks to liquidity. It will be thanks to shareholders and governments.
This is a good time to be in solid company, not necessarily a rich one.
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Old 23rd Apr 2020, 09:32
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Just a quick thought ; Aren't these companies in this lock-down strangulation at the behest of the Government ? So, why is it so shocking that these companies should ask for total compensation from the same Governments that imposed the lock-down ?
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Old 23rd Apr 2020, 09:56
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Virgin Atlantic Financial Facts

Virgin Atlantic turned over circa £2.7 billion last year FACT
Their "Marketing Costs" were circa £570 million FACT

You do the maths, why spend so much on marketing ! The marketing budget includes the licence to use the "Virgin Brand"

Any profits are taken 'Offshore" and redistributed to shareholders, VA would never ever seemingly make a profit, it gave them the narrative to tell the staff about how hard it was and how they couldn't afford pay rises etc. How can a company 30 years old only make a profit once or twice in that long period? They carried the bare minimum in cash as the rest was siphoned off to launch rockets and ships. The only time VA made a significant profit was the year SA bought its 49% (total madness to buy 49% of anything) SRB is a gambler always was and always will be, he has suffered a traumatic period in the casino and will be asked to leave shortly his cash has run out. His whole world will fall like a house of cards, he burns through cash quicker than my wife and now his business style of living on the edge and constantly spending is coming to haunt him.

My guess is he may borrow from a rich friend in the sand but how much will it take to survive? No one knows, this one can't be predicted. Virgin Atlantic is no more but will return in phoenix form back as Virgin Holidays and its LHR slots are still valuable. No government loan as they have no security, they have leased off everything and spent their assets, O'Leary Walsh would sue and win against the government and they know it.

Virgin is a dead duck right now. FACT


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Old 23rd Apr 2020, 10:07
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What are we doing?

That there is a hate towards Branson at the public at large seems abundantly clear, and I guess we just have to live with it. But to read on PPRuNe how fellow pilots actively try to shoot down another airline Ė I find it reprehensible.

There are airlines I donít particularly care for, some I almost detest, but I would NEVER go on this board and actively try to talk-up why this particular company should fail. I just do not get this mindset to do this to fellow pilots who love their job and who have families to feed. Is this where we want to go? Letís try to be supportive of each otherís plight. Isnít there enough grief in the world at the moment?
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Old 23rd Apr 2020, 10:08
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Virgin Atlantic owe Delta $200 million,Forbes.
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Old 23rd Apr 2020, 10:27
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Originally Posted by Bora Bora View Post
That there is a hate towards Branson at the public at large seems abundantly clear, and I guess we just have to live with it. But to read on PPRuNe how fellow pilots actively try to shoot down another airline Ė I find it reprehensible.

There are airlines I donít particularly care for, some I almost detest, but I would NEVER go on this board and actively try to talk-up why this particular company should fail. I just do not get this mindset to do this to fellow pilots who love their job and who have families to feed. Is this where we want to go? Letís try to be supportive of each otherís plight. Isnít there enough grief in the world at the moment?

Have a look at the Norwegian thread...There are some real snakes out there. Itís not just Virgin itís any airline that isnít theirs..
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Old 23rd Apr 2020, 10:46
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O'Leary Walsh would sue and win against the government and they know it.
Sue for what? The EU has said the state aid rules don't apply during the crisis.
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