Virgin Atlantic
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Originally Posted by Pilot DAR
WARNING!
Moderating the inappropriate posts on this thread, and responding to a number of reports of rude posts is getting to be too much work. I have not locked the thread, but I'm thinking about it. In the midst of the inappropriate posts is some good discussion, which I would like to encourage. If you would like the thread to continue, don't abuse it.
One of your moderators.
Moderating the inappropriate posts on this thread, and responding to a number of reports of rude posts is getting to be too much work. I have not locked the thread, but I'm thinking about it. In the midst of the inappropriate posts is some good discussion, which I would like to encourage. If you would like the thread to continue, don't abuse it.
One of your moderators.
An excellent time to step in , some of my posts were a little inflamed, during this hot topic
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Originally Posted by nowhereasfiled
...Delta expect virgin to enter administration.
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Oh dear !!
So why is Branson not going to the credit markets ?
His island is woth didly squat , only what some other billionaire will pay and I guarentee its not worth $100million as he claims .
Come Branson , show you really want your airline , pay through the nose just like Carnival Cruise did to get their cash needed.
At this rate your hardly convincing anyone that you REALLY want to save it !!
Govt and taxpayers will not fund you ... do the right thing and step up to the credit markets !!!
So why is Branson not going to the credit markets ?
His island is woth didly squat , only what some other billionaire will pay and I guarentee its not worth $100million as he claims .
Come Branson , show you really want your airline , pay through the nose just like Carnival Cruise did to get their cash needed.
At this rate your hardly convincing anyone that you REALLY want to save it !!
Govt and taxpayers will not fund you ... do the right thing and step up to the credit markets !!!
Originally Posted by nowhereasfiled
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Branson has an emotional attachment to VS, so hopefully, something will happen. A real shame, VS had turned a corner in recent years and about to become profitable then focus on expansion. A rather depressing thought that the only UK carrier out of LHR will be BA. I still think VS will find the money. Otherwise, I look forward to the new airline that steps in and takes over from Virgin. I'm sure the new airline will have amazing Ts and Cs and won't use agencies/contract pilots thus further degrading our industry...not.
Interestingly, everyone (UK public, not this forum) seems very concerned about a loan of £500m of public money, but I wonder if these same people are that vocal and against £106 billion spend on HS2. A complete farce.
Also interesting that the government have told Wizz Air they qualify for the Covid Financing Facility. A non-UK company with 1.5 billion in the bank. Regardless if Wizz has a UK subsidiary or not, if we're going by the mantra that the parent should have the responsibility over it's children (Branson and Virgin) surely the same should apply.
Interestingly, everyone (UK public, not this forum) seems very concerned about a loan of £500m of public money, but I wonder if these same people are that vocal and against £106 billion spend on HS2. A complete farce.
Also interesting that the government have told Wizz Air they qualify for the Covid Financing Facility. A non-UK company with 1.5 billion in the bank. Regardless if Wizz has a UK subsidiary or not, if we're going by the mantra that the parent should have the responsibility over it's children (Branson and Virgin) surely the same should apply.
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Yes it does, in the very first sentence.
Sir Richard Branson's co-investor in Virgin Atlantic has ruled out injecting cash into the struggling airline - and indicated he expects it to go into administration.
I really hope he’s wrong.
ATB
LD
Sir Richard Branson's co-investor in Virgin Atlantic has ruled out injecting cash into the struggling airline - and indicated he expects it to go into administration.
I really hope he’s wrong.
ATB
LD
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LCCs Wizz Air and Ryanair lead the way, with liquidity at 48% and 47% of revenue – equivalent to 176 days and 170 days of revenue respectively.
I read somewhere that Ryanair are incurring costs of less than a million Euro's a month.
At the other end of the scale is Norwegian, with liquidity at 7% of revenue, or 26 days
Any one know what VS has ?
The UK Govt will not float very low levels of liquidity with the potential loss to Tax payers when subsequently going into administration..... Boris would lose a lot of supporters
VS I fear is soon to become UK airline history.
Perhaps Ryanair will rebrand it ?
I read somewhere that Ryanair are incurring costs of less than a million Euro's a month.
At the other end of the scale is Norwegian, with liquidity at 7% of revenue, or 26 days
Any one know what VS has ?
The UK Govt will not float very low levels of liquidity with the potential loss to Tax payers when subsequently going into administration..... Boris would lose a lot of supporters
VS I fear is soon to become UK airline history.
Perhaps Ryanair will rebrand it ?
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Good luck everyone
Branson is no different to Bishop, Laker, Keegan, Stocks, Walsh etc. etc. They all retreat to their tax havens pleading poverty while the troops at the coal face take the hit. The industry has been smoke and mirrors for decades and a profitable airline is a myth...the BA pension fund deficit cancels out any profits they make. Independent airlines surrounded the core business with “suppliers” charging extortionate rates for services...sucking the life blood out of the business...sorry times are hard, oil prices are high, you can’t have a pay rise...sound familiar? Final salary pensions go down the drain when an airline goes broke and after paying 25% of my salary into a money purchase scheme my pot has dropped 30%...only retired BA final salary retirees are immune...hence BA no longer offer a final salary scheme. Thank God I’m retired...good luck everyone, whoever you work for!
Maybe someone who REALLY cares about their employees and the airline industry will step forward and employ amazing positive people.
Maybe someone who REALLY cares about their employees and the airline industry will step forward and employ amazing positive people.
Originally Posted by Locked door
Yes it does, in the very first sentence.
Sir Richard Branson's co-investor in Virgin Atlantic has ruled out injecting cash into the struggling airline - and indicated he expects it to go into administration.
I really hope he’s wrong.
Sir Richard Branson's co-investor in Virgin Atlantic has ruled out injecting cash into the struggling airline - and indicated he expects it to go into administration.
I really hope he’s wrong.
The nearest he gets is "If they are required to go through an administrative process ...", but he stops short (understandably) of predicting that's what's going to happen.
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Originally Posted by nowhereasfiled
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Originally Posted by Joe le Taxi
I suspect the delta boss thinks the UK administration process is just like the convenient US Chapter 11 fall back option ... It isn't!
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Ed Bastian elaborated more on this in an interview with CNBC:
“Well, on the Delta front, we are not in a position to invest any more money into Virgin. We’re already at the ownership cap of 49%. And candidly with the cash that we need to protect our own business, that’s where our focus is. I trust Virgin will work through its challenges with the government and with Richard.”
“Well, on the Delta front, we are not in a position to invest any more money into Virgin. We’re already at the ownership cap of 49%. And candidly with the cash that we need to protect our own business, that’s where our focus is. I trust Virgin will work through its challenges with the government and with Richard.”
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Originally Posted by wisecaptain
LCCs Wizz Air and Ryanair lead the way, with liquidity at 48% and 47% of revenue – equivalent to 176 days and 170 days of revenue respectively.
I read somewhere that Ryanair are incurring costs of less than a million Euro's a month.
At the other end of the scale is Norwegian, with liquidity at 7% of revenue, or 26 days
Any one know what VS has ?
The UK Govt will not float very low levels of liquidity with the potential loss to Tax payers when subsequently going into administration..... Boris would lose a lot of supporters
VS I fear is soon to become UK airline history.
Perhaps Ryanair will rebrand it ?
I read somewhere that Ryanair are incurring costs of less than a million Euro's a month.
At the other end of the scale is Norwegian, with liquidity at 7% of revenue, or 26 days
Any one know what VS has ?
The UK Govt will not float very low levels of liquidity with the potential loss to Tax payers when subsequently going into administration..... Boris would lose a lot of supporters
VS I fear is soon to become UK airline history.
Perhaps Ryanair will rebrand it ?
What matters is parent companies, credit lines and/or governments’ help.
Even if you have 10 months liquidity in the bank which a few airlines do have there is no way it’s going to be enough.
Also, surviving alone won’t be enough as when they slowly start opening countries the losses will be deep as there will be months and months of reduced flying with few (scared) passengers.
Most airlines will survive but it won’t be thanks to liquidity. It will be thanks to shareholders and governments.
This is a good time to be in solid company, not necessarily a rich one.
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Just a quick thought ; Aren't these companies in this lock-down strangulation at the behest of the Government ? So, why is it so shocking that these companies should ask for total compensation from the same Governments that imposed the lock-down ?
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Virgin Atlantic Financial Facts
Virgin Atlantic turned over circa £2.7 billion last year FACT
Their "Marketing Costs" were circa £570 million FACT
You do the maths, why spend so much on marketing ! The marketing budget includes the licence to use the "Virgin Brand"
Any profits are taken 'Offshore" and redistributed to shareholders, VA would never ever seemingly make a profit, it gave them the narrative to tell the staff about how hard it was and how they couldn't afford pay rises etc. How can a company 30 years old only make a profit once or twice in that long period? They carried the bare minimum in cash as the rest was siphoned off to launch rockets and ships. The only time VA made a significant profit was the year SA bought its 49% (total madness to buy 49% of anything) SRB is a gambler always was and always will be, he has suffered a traumatic period in the casino and will be asked to leave shortly his cash has run out. His whole world will fall like a house of cards, he burns through cash quicker than my wife and now his business style of living on the edge and constantly spending is coming to haunt him.
My guess is he may borrow from a rich friend in the sand but how much will it take to survive? No one knows, this one can't be predicted. Virgin Atlantic is no more but will return in phoenix form back as Virgin Holidays and its LHR slots are still valuable. No government loan as they have no security, they have leased off everything and spent their assets, O'Leary Walsh would sue and win against the government and they know it.
Virgin is a dead duck right now. FACT
Their "Marketing Costs" were circa £570 million FACT
You do the maths, why spend so much on marketing ! The marketing budget includes the licence to use the "Virgin Brand"
Any profits are taken 'Offshore" and redistributed to shareholders, VA would never ever seemingly make a profit, it gave them the narrative to tell the staff about how hard it was and how they couldn't afford pay rises etc. How can a company 30 years old only make a profit once or twice in that long period? They carried the bare minimum in cash as the rest was siphoned off to launch rockets and ships. The only time VA made a significant profit was the year SA bought its 49% (total madness to buy 49% of anything) SRB is a gambler always was and always will be, he has suffered a traumatic period in the casino and will be asked to leave shortly his cash has run out. His whole world will fall like a house of cards, he burns through cash quicker than my wife and now his business style of living on the edge and constantly spending is coming to haunt him.
My guess is he may borrow from a rich friend in the sand but how much will it take to survive? No one knows, this one can't be predicted. Virgin Atlantic is no more but will return in phoenix form back as Virgin Holidays and its LHR slots are still valuable. No government loan as they have no security, they have leased off everything and spent their assets, O'Leary Walsh would sue and win against the government and they know it.
Virgin is a dead duck right now. FACT
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What are we doing?
That there is a hate towards Branson at the public at large seems abundantly clear, and I guess we just have to live with it. But to read on PPRuNe how fellow pilots actively try to shoot down another airline – I find it reprehensible.
There are airlines I don’t particularly care for, some I almost detest, but I would NEVER go on this board and actively try to talk-up why this particular company should fail. I just do not get this mindset to do this to fellow pilots who love their job and who have families to feed. Is this where we want to go? Let’s try to be supportive of each other’s plight. Isn’t there enough grief in the world at the moment?
There are airlines I don’t particularly care for, some I almost detest, but I would NEVER go on this board and actively try to talk-up why this particular company should fail. I just do not get this mindset to do this to fellow pilots who love their job and who have families to feed. Is this where we want to go? Let’s try to be supportive of each other’s plight. Isn’t there enough grief in the world at the moment?
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Originally Posted by Bora Bora
That there is a hate towards Branson at the public at large seems abundantly clear, and I guess we just have to live with it. But to read on PPRuNe how fellow pilots actively try to shoot down another airline – I find it reprehensible.
There are airlines I don’t particularly care for, some I almost detest, but I would NEVER go on this board and actively try to talk-up why this particular company should fail. I just do not get this mindset to do this to fellow pilots who love their job and who have families to feed. Is this where we want to go? Let’s try to be supportive of each other’s plight. Isn’t there enough grief in the world at the moment?
There are airlines I don’t particularly care for, some I almost detest, but I would NEVER go on this board and actively try to talk-up why this particular company should fail. I just do not get this mindset to do this to fellow pilots who love their job and who have families to feed. Is this where we want to go? Let’s try to be supportive of each other’s plight. Isn’t there enough grief in the world at the moment?
Have a look at the Norwegian thread...There are some real snakes out there. It’s not just Virgin it’s any airline that isn’t theirs..
