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Virgin Atlantic

Old 22nd Apr 2020, 19:03
  #261 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The sky
Posts: 230
Yes it does, in the very first sentence.

Sir Richard Branson's co-investor in Virgin Atlantic has ruled out injecting cash into the struggling airline - and indicated he expects it to go into administration.

I really hope he’s wrong.

ATB

LD
Locked door is offline  
Old 22nd Apr 2020, 19:09
  #262 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Far East
Posts: 81
Red face

LCCs Wizz Air and Ryanair lead the way, with liquidity at 48% and 47% of revenue Ė equivalent to 176 days and 170 days of revenue respectively.
I read somewhere that Ryanair are incurring costs of less than a million Euro's a month.

At the other end of the scale is Norwegian, with liquidity at 7% of revenue, or 26 days
Any one know what VS has ?
The UK Govt will not float very low levels of liquidity with the potential loss to Tax payers when subsequently going into administration..... Boris would lose a lot of supporters
VS I fear is soon to become UK airline history.
Perhaps Ryanair will rebrand it ?
wisecaptain is offline  
Old 22nd Apr 2020, 19:23
  #263 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Shoreham
Age: 69
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Good luck everyone

Branson is no different to Bishop, Laker, Keegan, Stocks, Walsh etc. etc. They all retreat to their tax havens pleading poverty while the troops at the coal face take the hit. The industry has been smoke and mirrors for decades and a profitable airline is a myth...the BA pension fund deficit cancels out any profits they make. Independent airlines surrounded the core business with ďsuppliersĒ charging extortionate rates for services...sucking the life blood out of the business...sorry times are hard, oil prices are high, you canít have a pay rise...sound familiar? Final salary pensions go down the drain when an airline goes broke and after paying 25% of my salary into a money purchase scheme my pot has dropped 30%...only retired BA final salary retirees are immune...hence BA no longer offer a final salary scheme. Thank God Iím retired...good luck everyone, whoever you work for!
Maybe someone who REALLY cares about their employees and the airline industry will step forward and employ amazing positive people.
B744IRE is offline  
Old 22nd Apr 2020, 20:04
  #264 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
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Originally Posted by Locked door View Post
Yes it does, in the very first sentence.

Sir Richard Branson's co-investor in Virgin Atlantic has ruled out injecting cash into the struggling airline - and indicated he expects it to go into administration.

I really hope heís wrong.
With respect, that's Sky News's spin on what Bastian may or may not expect, hence its use of those weasel words "[he] indicated [that]", but it isn't supported anywhere in the article by a direct quote from the Delta CEO.

The nearest he gets is "If they are required to go through an administrative process ...", but he stops short (understandably) of predicting that's what's going to happen.
DaveReidUK is offline  
Old 22nd Apr 2020, 20:09
  #265 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
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Posts: 323
Originally Posted by nowhereasfiled View Post
https://news.sky.com/story/coronavir...antic-11977216

Delta expect virgin to enter administration.
I suspect the delta boss thinks the UK administration process is just like the convenient US Chapter 11 fall back option ... It isn't!
Joe le Taxi is offline  
Old 22nd Apr 2020, 20:26
  #266 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: U.K.
Posts: 49
Originally Posted by Joe le Taxi View Post
I suspect the delta boss thinks the UK administration process is just like the convenient US Chapter 11 fall back option ... It isn't!
I think you are correct, he doesnít realise the difference.
teamax is offline  
Old 22nd Apr 2020, 21:50
  #267 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Europe
Posts: 153
Ed Bastian elaborated more on this in an interview with CNBC:

Well, on the Delta front, we are not in a position to invest any more money into Virgin. We’re already at the ownership cap of 49%. And candidly with the cash that we need to protect our own business, that’s where our focus is. I trust Virgin will work through its challenges with the government and with Richard.


Maxfli is offline  
Old 22nd Apr 2020, 23:30
  #268 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: hang on let me check
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Originally Posted by wisecaptain View Post
LCCs Wizz Air and Ryanair lead the way, with liquidity at 48% and 47% of revenue Ė equivalent to 176 days and 170 days of revenue respectively.
I read somewhere that Ryanair are incurring costs of less than a million Euro's a month.

At the other end of the scale is Norwegian, with liquidity at 7% of revenue, or 26 days
Any one know what VS has ?
The UK Govt will not float very low levels of liquidity with the potential loss to Tax payers when subsequently going into administration..... Boris would lose a lot of supporters
VS I fear is soon to become UK airline history.
Perhaps Ryanair will rebrand it ?
Liquidity doesnít mean too much.
What matters is parent companies, credit lines and/or governmentsí help.

Even if you have 10 months liquidity in the bank which a few airlines do have there is no way itís going to be enough.
Also, surviving alone wonít be enough as when they slowly start opening countries the losses will be deep as there will be months and months of reduced flying with few (scared) passengers.

Most airlines will survive but it wonít be thanks to liquidity. It will be thanks to shareholders and governments.
This is a good time to be in solid company, not necessarily a rich one.
bringbackthe80s is offline  
Old 23rd Apr 2020, 09:32
  #269 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 602
Just a quick thought ; Aren't these companies in this lock-down strangulation at the behest of the Government ? So, why is it so shocking that these companies should ask for total compensation from the same Governments that imposed the lock-down ?
Landflap is offline  
Old 23rd Apr 2020, 09:56
  #270 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: London
Posts: 0
Virgin Atlantic Financial Facts

Virgin Atlantic turned over circa £2.7 billion last year FACT
Their "Marketing Costs" were circa £570 million FACT

You do the maths, why spend so much on marketing ! The marketing budget includes the licence to use the "Virgin Brand"

Any profits are taken 'Offshore" and redistributed to shareholders, VA would never ever seemingly make a profit, it gave them the narrative to tell the staff about how hard it was and how they couldn't afford pay rises etc. How can a company 30 years old only make a profit once or twice in that long period? They carried the bare minimum in cash as the rest was siphoned off to launch rockets and ships. The only time VA made a significant profit was the year SA bought its 49% (total madness to buy 49% of anything) SRB is a gambler always was and always will be, he has suffered a traumatic period in the casino and will be asked to leave shortly his cash has run out. His whole world will fall like a house of cards, he burns through cash quicker than my wife and now his business style of living on the edge and constantly spending is coming to haunt him.

My guess is he may borrow from a rich friend in the sand but how much will it take to survive? No one knows, this one can't be predicted. Virgin Atlantic is no more but will return in phoenix form back as Virgin Holidays and its LHR slots are still valuable. No government loan as they have no security, they have leased off everything and spent their assets, O'Leary Walsh would sue and win against the government and they know it.

Virgin is a dead duck right now. FACT


Chippybus is offline  
Old 23rd Apr 2020, 10:07
  #271 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 1998
Location: UK
Posts: 20
What are we doing?

That there is a hate towards Branson at the public at large seems abundantly clear, and I guess we just have to live with it. But to read on PPRuNe how fellow pilots actively try to shoot down another airline Ė I find it reprehensible.

There are airlines I donít particularly care for, some I almost detest, but I would NEVER go on this board and actively try to talk-up why this particular company should fail. I just do not get this mindset to do this to fellow pilots who love their job and who have families to feed. Is this where we want to go? Letís try to be supportive of each otherís plight. Isnít there enough grief in the world at the moment?
Bora Bora is offline  
Old 23rd Apr 2020, 10:08
  #272 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: uk
Posts: 87
Virgin Atlantic owe Delta $200 million,Forbes.
Phantom4 is offline  
Old 23rd Apr 2020, 10:27
  #273 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: N/A
Posts: 168
Originally Posted by Bora Bora View Post
That there is a hate towards Branson at the public at large seems abundantly clear, and I guess we just have to live with it. But to read on PPRuNe how fellow pilots actively try to shoot down another airline Ė I find it reprehensible.

There are airlines I donít particularly care for, some I almost detest, but I would NEVER go on this board and actively try to talk-up why this particular company should fail. I just do not get this mindset to do this to fellow pilots who love their job and who have families to feed. Is this where we want to go? Letís try to be supportive of each otherís plight. Isnít there enough grief in the world at the moment?

Have a look at the Norwegian thread...There are some real snakes out there. Itís not just Virgin itís any airline that isnít theirs..
8che is offline  
Old 23rd Apr 2020, 10:46
  #274 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: timbuktu
Posts: 1
O'Leary Walsh would sue and win against the government and they know it.
Sue for what? The EU has said the state aid rules don't apply during the crisis.
marchino61 is offline  
Old 23rd Apr 2020, 10:56
  #275 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: London
Posts: 920
Originally Posted by Chippybus View Post
Any profits are taken 'Offshore" and redistributed to shareholders, VA would never ever seemingly make a profit, it gave them the narrative to tell the staff about how hard it was and how they couldn't afford pay rises etc. How can a company 30 years old only make a profit once or twice in that long period? They carried the bare minimum in cash as the rest was siphoned off to launch rockets and ships. The only time VA made a significant profit was the year SA bought its 49% (total madness to buy 49% of anything) SRB is a gambler always was and always will be, he has suffered a traumatic period in the casino and will be asked to leave shortly his cash has run out. His whole world will fall like a house of cards, he burns through cash quicker than my wife and now his business style of living on the edge and constantly spending is coming to haunt him.
There's a long-standing view that very few of his businesses are actually profitable. Branson's modus operandi was to set something up with much hoopla, run it for a year or two then offload it and retain a minority stake and a payment for use of the Virgin brand. I recall he took his company (VGHL?) private in order to avoid any scrutiny by shareholders etc.

I think SIA dodged a bullet flogging its stake to Delta.
dead_pan is offline  
Old 23rd Apr 2020, 11:17
  #276 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: In the flare
Posts: 43
Viable businesses can go to banks for money. Why can't VA do this?
clamchowder is offline  
Old 23rd Apr 2020, 11:24
  #277 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: London
Posts: 123
Originally Posted by Bora Bora View Post
That there is a hate towards Branson at the public at large seems abundantly clear, and I guess we just have to live with it. But to read on PPRuNe how fellow pilots actively try to shoot down another airline Ė I find it reprehensible.

There are airlines I donít particularly care for, some I almost detest, but I would NEVER go on this board and actively try to talk-up why this particular company should fail. I just do not get this mindset to do this to fellow pilots who love their job and who have families to feed. Is this where we want to go? Letís try to be supportive of each otherís plight. Isnít there enough grief in the world at the moment?
probably because they didnít pass selection , also jealous of T&Cs that the company has . Usually the main reasons .
They hope the company will go bust so they feel better in themselves and can justify their actions
Riskybis is online now  
Old 23rd Apr 2020, 11:28
  #278 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: London
Posts: 123
If Virgin do go bust I hope everyone is excited for T&Cs to get even worse , Virgin probably has the best T&Cs in the industry (Iím Ex BA) so if they go , BA will without a doubt make theirs worse . All other airlines will follow suit .
Riskybis is online now  
Old 23rd Apr 2020, 11:30
  #279 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: in my own world
Posts: 136
Chippybus wrote:

How can a company 30 years old only make a profit once or twice in that long period?
Both your facts on how long the company have been in existence and years of profitability are grossly wrong.

Mods can you do something about these trolls who try to spread utter lies.

xray one is offline  
Old 23rd Apr 2020, 11:33
  #280 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: London
Posts: 0
Fair point I stand corrected, however, to borrow you need some security, or lose some of your shares, both aren't viable. I hope nobody thinks I am slagging off another airline, I'm not, I have friends that work there and I want them to survive, just the facts were posted.
Chippybus is offline  

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