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Virgin Atlantic

Old 23rd Apr 2020, 10:56
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Originally Posted by Chippybus View Post
Any profits are taken 'Offshore" and redistributed to shareholders, VA would never ever seemingly make a profit, it gave them the narrative to tell the staff about how hard it was and how they couldn't afford pay rises etc. How can a company 30 years old only make a profit once or twice in that long period? They carried the bare minimum in cash as the rest was siphoned off to launch rockets and ships. The only time VA made a significant profit was the year SA bought its 49% (total madness to buy 49% of anything) SRB is a gambler always was and always will be, he has suffered a traumatic period in the casino and will be asked to leave shortly his cash has run out. His whole world will fall like a house of cards, he burns through cash quicker than my wife and now his business style of living on the edge and constantly spending is coming to haunt him.
There's a long-standing view that very few of his businesses are actually profitable. Branson's modus operandi was to set something up with much hoopla, run it for a year or two then offload it and retain a minority stake and a payment for use of the Virgin brand. I recall he took his company (VGHL?) private in order to avoid any scrutiny by shareholders etc.

I think SIA dodged a bullet flogging its stake to Delta.
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Old 23rd Apr 2020, 11:17
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Viable businesses can go to banks for money. Why can't VA do this?
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Old 23rd Apr 2020, 11:24
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Originally Posted by Bora Bora View Post
That there is a hate towards Branson at the public at large seems abundantly clear, and I guess we just have to live with it. But to read on PPRuNe how fellow pilots actively try to shoot down another airline Ė I find it reprehensible.

There are airlines I donít particularly care for, some I almost detest, but I would NEVER go on this board and actively try to talk-up why this particular company should fail. I just do not get this mindset to do this to fellow pilots who love their job and who have families to feed. Is this where we want to go? Letís try to be supportive of each otherís plight. Isnít there enough grief in the world at the moment?
probably because they didnít pass selection , also jealous of T&Cs that the company has . Usually the main reasons .
They hope the company will go bust so they feel better in themselves and can justify their actions
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Old 23rd Apr 2020, 11:28
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If Virgin do go bust I hope everyone is excited for T&Cs to get even worse , Virgin probably has the best T&Cs in the industry (Iím Ex BA) so if they go , BA will without a doubt make theirs worse . All other airlines will follow suit .
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Old 23rd Apr 2020, 11:30
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Chippybus wrote:

How can a company 30 years old only make a profit once or twice in that long period?
Both your facts on how long the company have been in existence and years of profitability are grossly wrong.

Mods can you do something about these trolls who try to spread utter lies.

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Old 23rd Apr 2020, 11:33
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Fair point I stand corrected, however, to borrow you need some security, or lose some of your shares, both aren't viable. I hope nobody thinks I am slagging off another airline, I'm not, I have friends that work there and I want them to survive, just the facts were posted.
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Old 23rd Apr 2020, 11:34
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Originally Posted by xray one View Post
Chippybus wrote:



Both your facts on how long the company have been in existence and years of profitability are grossly wrong.

Mods can you do something about these trolls who try to spread utter lies.
Apologies can you let me know where I should be corrected?
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Old 23rd Apr 2020, 11:35
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Originally Posted by Bora Bora View Post
That there is a hate towards Branson at the public at large seems abundantly clear, and I guess we just have to live with it. But to read on PPRuNe how fellow pilots actively try to shoot down another airline Ė I find it reprehensible.

There are airlines I donít particularly care for, some I almost detest, but I would NEVER go on this board and actively try to talk-up why this particular company should fail. I just do not get this mindset to do this to fellow pilots who love their job and who have families to feed. Is this where we want to go? Letís try to be supportive of each otherís plight. Isnít there enough grief in the world at the moment?


Well said Bora Bora. I think these people are in the wrong forum. They should be on the ...

Spectators Balcony (Spotters Corner) If you're not a professional pilot but want to discuss issues about the job, this is the best place to loiter. You won't be moved on by 'security' and there'll be plenty of experts to answer any questions.

Problem solved! Then they can leave this forum to the professionals. I doubt very much that any self respecting professional pilot would want to see a fellow colleague lose their job.

Just one last point about the viability of VS. No company can survive if the government does not allow it to function. VS would not need assistance if they could fly their passengers. Any company that can fill up six Jumbos to just one destination in the summer must be getting something right.
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Old 23rd Apr 2020, 11:40
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Originally Posted by xray one View Post
Chippybus wrote:



Both your facts on how long the company have been in existence and years of profitability are grossly wrong.

Mods can you do something about these trolls who try to spread utter lies.
Apologies 26 years in existence, X Ray one if you add up all the profits and deduct the losses over the 26 years what would be the result? Then explain to me how can a business survive on these numbers as I can't get it all to make sense and someone of your gravitas can perhaps educate me. Many thanks
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Old 23rd Apr 2020, 11:59
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Chippybus seems to have a chippy on his shoulder. Search his posts, he was pro Virgin 2009Ölooking at contract work in China 2014. Either got in and got sacked or never made the grade. Either way...not worth listening to 🙄
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Old 23rd Apr 2020, 12:13
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Originally Posted by Landflap View Post
Just a quick thought ; Aren't these companies in this lock-down strangulation at the behest of the Government ? So, why is it so shocking that these companies should ask for total compensation from the same Governments that imposed the lock-down ?
Which Government are you thinking of?

Even if the UK HMG removed lockdown today VS, BA and others would still be clobbered by all the other variants of lockdowns and entry restrictions that have been imposed on them and other airlines worldwide..
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Old 23rd Apr 2020, 12:34
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Why the hate for Branson when Easyjet have had a big loan from HMG? Does everyone hate Stelios as well? In case you hadn't noticed, big business making profits is just so last century......it's only the little ones that need profits to pay the owners wages (and the taxes). What is needed is an overhaul of business taxation and general behaviour. Boards these days are only interested in finding loopholes to exploit for a quick buck and then exit. How do we "cure" that? I wish I knew.
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Old 23rd Apr 2020, 12:51
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Originally Posted by Bora Bora View Post
That there is a hate towards Branson at the public at large seems abundantly clear, and I guess we just have to live with it. But to read on PPRuNe how fellow pilots actively try to shoot down another airline Ė I find it reprehensible.

There are airlines I donít particularly care for, some I almost detest, but I would NEVER go on this board and actively try to talk-up why this particular company should fail. I just do not get this mindset to do this to fellow pilots who love their job and who have families to feed. Is this where we want to go? Letís try to be supportive of each otherís plight. Isnít there enough grief in the world at the moment?
What makes you think everyone on this site is a pilot. As in any website there are trolls idiots and just plain nasty people.
I suggest the overwhelming majority have never met the man, fewer still have any knowledge of his bank account balance following the market drop over the last 2 months.
I would also suggest that there are tiny minority, indeed if any, on the site who are capable of achieving what he has over the last few years building a well respected airline from nothing and against the monolith of the King/Marshall era.
They have nothing to offer the world
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Old 23rd Apr 2020, 13:03
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Originally Posted by Chippybus View Post
My guess is he may borrow from a rich friend in the sand but how much will it take to survive? No one knows, this one can't be predicted. Virgin Atlantic is no more but will return in phoenix form back as Virgin Holidays and its LHR slots are still valuable.

I thought the slots had already been borrowed against - if Virgin collapse the slots are gone.
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Old 23rd Apr 2020, 13:08
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Originally Posted by flyingfemme View Post
Why the hate for Branson when Easyjet have had a big loan from HMG? Does everyone hate Stelios as well? In case you hadn't noticed, big business making profits is just so last century......it's only the little ones that need profits to pay the owners wages (and the taxes). What is needed is an overhaul of business taxation and general behaviour. Boards these days are only interested in finding loopholes to exploit for a quick buck and then exit. How do we "cure" that? I wish I knew.
I think you will discover there is no love lost for Stelios either, and Stelios is not pilots friend, at least if recent weeks actions are anything to go by.
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Old 23rd Apr 2020, 13:10
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Mods can you do something about these trolls who try to spread utter lies.
Yes, I can lock the thread, I nearly did the other day.

Would locking the thread make the situation better? Or can posters just be more polite?
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Old 23rd Apr 2020, 13:43
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I think we need to show some more consideration for people actually working there, this is not a good time for anyone. Myself included, it is a sensitive topic as many real peoples lives are at risk, so maybe we should show a bit more empathy for the situation as a whole, and as DAR said be a bit nicer.
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Old 23rd Apr 2020, 14:19
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Chippybus said:

Apologies 26 years in existence
Wrong again...maybe, with the help of Google, you could get the correct number on your third attempt?

Pilot DAR

Not trying to tell you how to moderate, but perhaps you could start banning people peddling false information? You could start with Chippybus?
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Old 23rd Apr 2020, 16:01
  #299 (permalink)  
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A good friend of mine told me once that we as individuals mean nothing to the world, but we mean the world to those who love us. No company is irreplaceable. No one cares about an airline going into administration. The world has done just fine without PanAm, TWA, Monarch, Thomas Cook, and the many more to come and go. To paraphrase my friend, Virgin means nothing to world, but it means the world to those who work there. I am sure the brand will survive one way or another. Perhaps IAG buy it and have it as their boutique brand, or a private group, or the Germans, or the Chinese, or even RB decides to put money in it, who knows. Looking at the situation from the outside if Virgin goes, we will find some other airline to fly with. Nothing and no one is irreplaceable.

My favourite Italian chain Carluccio's went into administration, and though I am sure that those who worked there saw their world come crashing down, the consumers can still find a good Italian restaurant to eat their favourite pasta, or drink a good cup of coffee; HMRC will still get its taxes from someone else who gets the clientele, and even the employees will probably find somewhere else to work and call it home. For those who never knew about Carluccio's restaurants, they probably don't even care that this happened.

What is really despairing for me, is the fact that aviation has been decimated, without any real prospects of recovering any time soon, and this affects all of us working in the industry. Social distancing on aircraft doesn't work. The middle seat, or the newly proposed lovely cabin interiors which are shown in airline magazines don't meet the scientific requirements for social distancing. Unless we find a vaccine, airline flying is not coming back any time soon and we may all find ourselves unemployed so let us reflect on that for a moment.

Most of those pilots who are made redundant now will probably not see the inside of a flight deck ever again, and the longer this lasts, the longer the list of those who will be made redundant becomes, the more sorrow and pain it will cause all of us working for the airlines. I can't see how anyone who is a professional pilot can't see this as an existential danger to the profession and the long term conditions of service. It will probably mean that having a job, will not even be worth it anymore, because of what will be expected of us to do for the privilege of flying.

If Virgin goes into administration, it will be a sad day for the profession, as yet more colleagues will be made redundant, and more families will suffer, and more young people's dreams will be put on hold. Being a skilful pilot is probably very important for being successful, being lucky enough to be with the right airline is probably paramount this time around if one wants to continue in this profession, but having the emotional Intelligence to understand that these times require empathy is what differentiates people with integrity from sycophants.

I would suggest what my mother taught me when I was a little boy, still applies today on these boards; don't say anything, unless it is true, necessary and nice.
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Old 23rd Apr 2020, 16:37
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Thank you HFP. Looking at a number of threads; this one, the two hampster-wheels on UK and US politics, and the corona virus thread, I am dismayed by the vitriol I see poured out every day from supposedly intelligent and well-informed people. While obtaining good information, and not being swayed by one's own confirmation bias may be difficult to achieve, surely we can be polite to one another. Regardless of one's political convictions, or one's tribal loyalties to a particular company, is not kindness one of the most important of human virtues?
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