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Virgin Atlantic

Old 20th Apr 2020, 15:25
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Originally Posted by cashash View Post
But Branson doesn't. As the majority share holder any government aid to save his business is going to put money directly into his (offshore) pockets.
last i heard KL/AF 31% DL 49%. Virgin group 20%. So majority share holder is wrong. Yopr assertion that he would or could pocket the aid if forthcoming is puerile rubbish.
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Old 20th Apr 2020, 15:27
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Originally Posted by Busdriver01 View Post
I think if we were all honest with ourselves, the overwhelming majority would, given the opportunity to buy an island in the Caribbean and use it as a tax haven for our own personal wealth, do much the same.
My imagination is stretched to capacity, but yes in a similar and amazing position it would be hard not to follow RB's path and buy an island in the Caribbean - we are all human.

Until his wealth, private island and associated trappings are all exhausted the chances of attracting money from the UK tax payer is about zero - they are all human too.

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Old 20th Apr 2020, 15:27
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That KL/AF stake has not been confirmed. It was a "plan".
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Old 20th Apr 2020, 15:31
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Originally Posted by Superpilot View Post
That I'm guessing is an employment vehicle for him to get his dividends which he is entitled to. Again, the onshore businesses are not shoveling their onshore income abroad like you first insinuated, unlike Apple, Amazon, Google et all.
Virgin uses at least one of the techniques that Apple, Amazon, Google et al use to avoid tax

Virgin brand is licensed by the Caribbean holding company to the various companies around the world, and they pay a royalty for using it - the royalty fee is cost for those businesses so reduces their profits (if they make any), but it's income (and ultimately profit) for the holding company that's in tax free location

Last edited by Andy D; 20th Apr 2020 at 20:35. Reason: Fixed typo "holiday -> "holding"
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Old 20th Apr 2020, 15:32
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I fear for Virgin Atlantic. I have never understood the allure. 20 years ago some of their SFOs' were seconded to a fledgling easyjet as Captains during one of their periodic slumps. Every crisis seems to turn into an existential battle for them.
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Old 20th Apr 2020, 15:39
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Most of the discussion about Virgin Atlantic centres on Richard Branson and not the thousands of UK employees.
RB chooses to live in the Caribbean because he likes it there. He bought Necker decades ago. He is not like Phil Collins, Lewis Hamilton etc who move to Switzerland purely to avoid UK tax.
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Old 20th Apr 2020, 16:25
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Would Branson prefer to handover all interests in VS to the U.K. tax payer or let the brand die? I want to see the brand survive and the jobs keptbut don’t want any tax money being handed to Branson.
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Old 20th Apr 2020, 16:32
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This is not money being given to VS he is asking for. It is a loan.
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Old 20th Apr 2020, 17:14
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Originally Posted by Gove N.T. View Post
last i heard KL/AF 31% DL 49%. Virgin group 20%. So majority share holder is wrong. Yopr assertion that he would or could pocket the aid if forthcoming is puerile rubbish.
KL/AF deal fell through - it was mentioned earlier in the thread.
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Old 20th Apr 2020, 17:17
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Originally Posted by Zeus View Post
Most of the discussion about Virgin Atlantic centres on Richard Branson and not the thousands of UK employees.
There are many foreign companies that have UK employees - should the UK taxpayer be bailing out United Airlines for example?


RB chooses to live in the Caribbean because he likes it there. He bought Necker decades ago. He is not like Phil Collins, Lewis Hamilton etc who move to Switzerland purely to avoid UK tax.
He could still choose to to be tax resident in the UK
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Old 20th Apr 2020, 17:17
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If easyJet get a loan surely so should VA ?

best of luck to all the guys/gals there
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Old 20th Apr 2020, 17:29
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Originally Posted by Meester proach View Post
If easyJet get a loan surely so should VA ?

best of luck to all the guys/gals there
I assume they hadn't sufficently demonstrated how they would reduce costs and come up with a plan to repay the loan. Being an airline surely wouldn't be the only criteria in order to be offered a loan?
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Old 20th Apr 2020, 17:47
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Originally Posted by giggitygiggity View Post
I assume they hadn't sufficently demonstrated how they would reduce costs and come up with a plan to repay the loan. Being an airline surely wouldn't be the only criteria in order to be offered a loan?

I thought it was because easyjet are a UK registered company. If the Virgin Group Holdings Ltd want a similar deal then surely they should be approaching the Government of the British Virgin Islands where they are based.
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Old 20th Apr 2020, 17:50
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Originally Posted by cashash View Post
I thought it was because easyjet are a UK registered company. If the Virgin Group Holdings Ltd want a similar deal then surely they should be approaching the Government of the British Virgin Islands where they are based.
If that's the case, why did the British government ask them to resubmit it? What would be the point if they were never entitled to it in the first place?
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Old 20th Apr 2020, 18:02
  #195 (permalink)  
 
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Interesting read.

https://www.theguardian.com/business...avirus-support
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Old 20th Apr 2020, 18:07
  #196 (permalink)  
 
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Genuine question, I know many at Virgin and love to see them survive, but assuming say Branson puts his Island up as collateral and they get a UK government loan of 5 or 600m.
they’ve never made huge profits previously, whether by the markets or intentionally to put money elsewhere,

so in a possibly reduced aviation climate, how would they survive enough afterwards to repay the loan???
or was this the UK government’s reason to decline them first time around??
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Old 20th Apr 2020, 18:07
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Rishi Sunak clearly stated that VS should find a solution .
Branson can approach the credit markets and show some willing to borrow just as Carnival Cruise did . A few months ago they borrowed $500Million at 1% compared to a couple of weeks ago where they had to pay 15% .... but they payed and they survive .
Its there and available if Branson wants it , he just doesnt want to put VS and himself on the hook for expensive credit that would allow the creditors to hold him by the short and curlies . He wants the easy option from the UK Govt where by he can delay delay and delay repayments with whatever excuses he wants .
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Old 20th Apr 2020, 19:56
  #198 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by giggitygiggity View Post
Imagine what it is like to read that as one of their employees. What value can any employee get from that comment?
Well said. This is an absolutely horrible time for everyone involved.
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Old 20th Apr 2020, 20:08
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I sometimes despair at human nature whether it’s from a troll or someone in another airline. 10,000 jobs are at stake and the vast majority of you want to see Virgin fail purely so Branson fails. Years ago, he had a vision and 30 years later we had, until recently, a flourishing airline. The airline has spent the last few years restructuring and trimming costs, we now have a fleet of the most fuel-efficient aircraft going (744s were due to retire next year). We were on the up, announcing new routes later this year, with the Joint Venture with Delta paying dividends. We had a good ‘fighting fund’ of 450 million which would have seen us through most recessions. But not this one. How the Government is handling this shambles is for another day.

BA would love to see all airlines apart from theirs go bust. I bet they are already thinking about the windfall of SAA going under. Wee Willy Walsh has made no secret of wanting Virgin to go under. The calibre of the man was shown when he wanted to wager that we would go under in 5 years with the prize of a knee in the bollocks to the loser, that 5 years passed some time ago. When Casio Royale aired on board BA flights, he made sure a short clip of Branson was removed – how utterly childish. It’s pure greed and a power trip, just how many houses and Ferrari’s do people need.

When I hear of an airline going under I am genuinely saddened – regardless how they were managed. I was very happy we could help a few from Monarch and Thomas Cook recently.

His tax is his own business, I don’t know the facts and I’m sure you and Diane Abbott don’t either. All I know is that over the 30 years Virgin Atlantic and its employees have paid Billions in tax to the Government and 350 millions last year alone. We are only asking for a loan of 500 million for which Branson is offering his island as a guarantee.

As a footnote. All you keyboard warriors who drink at Starbucks, have an iPhone, Google on a regular basis and Facetime/Instagram think how much you’re giving to companies who pay fcuk all in tax.
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Old 20th Apr 2020, 21:12
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Originally Posted by xray one View Post

His tax is his own business,

That would be perfectly true if he were not seeking assistance from the UK taxpayer - as it is it is every taxpayers business how their taxes are spent.

Perhaps if he were offering the UK Government a 25% share in the ownership of the airline I can see that would be more palatable.
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