Female Pilots
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Yes TDR. It is nice to see more female pilots.
I am glad to hear this is not a windup. Those of us who do sincerely welcome female pilots should feel free to express it.
I make a point of complimenting female pilots when they do a nice job. I think some of them have been the recipients of harsh treatment from closed-minded individuals. I want female pilots to know they are accepted and welcome.
I am glad to hear this is not a windup. Those of us who do sincerely welcome female pilots should feel free to express it.
I make a point of complimenting female pilots when they do a nice job. I think some of them have been the recipients of harsh treatment from closed-minded individuals. I want female pilots to know they are accepted and welcome.
Guest
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TDR - I'm the one who closed your thread on R&N ... sorry if it caused you any offense (none intended). Although it may seem a bit "anal" to distinguish R&N postings from Aircrew Notices, the vast majority of the readership apparently want it that way.
I'm glad to see that your post was not a windup. (There have been many similar threads in the past which were definite wind-ups.)
It's always nice to hear positive comments on this subject. Thank you for re-opening your thread in this forum.
[This message has been edited by McD (edited 18 June 2001).]
I'm glad to see that your post was not a windup. (There have been many similar threads in the past which were definite wind-ups.)
It's always nice to hear positive comments on this subject. Thank you for re-opening your thread in this forum.
[This message has been edited by McD (edited 18 June 2001).]
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Empty kitchens, starving children but if it keeps your politically correct conscience clear or pleases the leacherous old dogs, whatever.
If it was an even playing field, I'm sure everyone would be happy but I wonder if Southwest congratulates male pilots when they do a good job. Or is the point that its that rare a female pilot to make a good job?
Surely the hangar rat who finally makes it after 10 years of slogging is more worthy of praise than some Nigella who's had just 'a little' help from daddy!
(Thinks,"I'm going to get a handbagging for this!")
If it was an even playing field, I'm sure everyone would be happy but I wonder if Southwest congratulates male pilots when they do a good job. Or is the point that its that rare a female pilot to make a good job?
Surely the hangar rat who finally makes it after 10 years of slogging is more worthy of praise than some Nigella who's had just 'a little' help from daddy!
(Thinks,"I'm going to get a handbagging for this!")
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Mr moto,
Do you really want to talk about an even playing field? I think you are forgetting how long women have been kept off the playing field. Have you given that any consideration? Is equality only an issue for you when you feel it is being denied you and unimportant when you deny it to others?
I do compliment male pilots when they do a nice job. But as I said, I make a point of complimenting female pilots because of the bad treatment they get from some people. I think the majority accepts female pilots but they are a silent majority.
I came up the hard way. I’ve sold my blood for $8 to get a meal and I’ve gone hungry. I know all about being a “hangar rat”, slogging it up for 10 years and some. I don’t begrudge anyone who gets help. I especially don’t begrudge it for females because they have to overcome gender discrimination. When the number of female pilots who get help from daddy exceeds the number of male pilots who’ve gotten the same help let me know.
Maybe I see this differently because my wife works in a male dominated field. I’ve seen the things she has to put up with for twenty-two years. And I don’t think my daughter should have to go through her life like that.
Maybe it was seeing a male passenger loudly complain and refuse to get on the flight when he saw a female pilot. How would you like that if the shoe was on the other foot. And she was every bit as good as the males I fly with.
I’ll leave you with what my 17-year-old son says when he sees gender discrimination, “Do you think he’s compensating for something?”
Do you really want to talk about an even playing field? I think you are forgetting how long women have been kept off the playing field. Have you given that any consideration? Is equality only an issue for you when you feel it is being denied you and unimportant when you deny it to others?
I do compliment male pilots when they do a nice job. But as I said, I make a point of complimenting female pilots because of the bad treatment they get from some people. I think the majority accepts female pilots but they are a silent majority.
I came up the hard way. I’ve sold my blood for $8 to get a meal and I’ve gone hungry. I know all about being a “hangar rat”, slogging it up for 10 years and some. I don’t begrudge anyone who gets help. I especially don’t begrudge it for females because they have to overcome gender discrimination. When the number of female pilots who get help from daddy exceeds the number of male pilots who’ve gotten the same help let me know.
Maybe I see this differently because my wife works in a male dominated field. I’ve seen the things she has to put up with for twenty-two years. And I don’t think my daughter should have to go through her life like that.
Maybe it was seeing a male passenger loudly complain and refuse to get on the flight when he saw a female pilot. How would you like that if the shoe was on the other foot. And she was every bit as good as the males I fly with.
I’ll leave you with what my 17-year-old son says when he sees gender discrimination, “Do you think he’s compensating for something?”
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Mutt - your post brought back some hilarious memories of my time in that particular country, especially the experiences with ATC. Most of the time, things went along just fine, but on occasion, I would get one of these two reactions: 1) "calling XXX, say again", or 2) dead silence. The first type of response was because (according to a friend of mine who worked with the local controllers) some of them liked hearing a woman's voice so much that they made us repeat everything, even if they had heard it clearly the first time! And of course we all know the reason for the second type of response.
To be fair, though, most of the people (military and civilian) were very professional, and nice to me as well, and I wouldn't trade the experience for anything. However, it certainly opened my eyes!
TDR - Your thread has made me realize something ... even though female pilot issues have become "old news" to me, I see now that for other people, it may not be old news at all.
It's sad when people assume the worst in someone, based on their own misguided stereotypes. Thankfully, though, the vast majority of pilots I've ever worked with are people who are much more level-headed, and their only concern is job performance, not gender.
[This message has been edited by McD (edited 19 June 2001).]
To be fair, though, most of the people (military and civilian) were very professional, and nice to me as well, and I wouldn't trade the experience for anything. However, it certainly opened my eyes!
TDR - Your thread has made me realize something ... even though female pilot issues have become "old news" to me, I see now that for other people, it may not be old news at all.
It's sad when people assume the worst in someone, based on their own misguided stereotypes. Thankfully, though, the vast majority of pilots I've ever worked with are people who are much more level-headed, and their only concern is job performance, not gender.
[This message has been edited by McD (edited 19 June 2001).]
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Mr Moto.
You mentioned kitchens and starving children. What's wrong with the male partner carrying out these roles? My wife and I share the house-hold chores.
Why do we have to stereotype gender into positions in life? If someone is capable of doing as job they should be given as much encouragement as possible.
I noticed a couple of comments about "Daddy helping his little girl"! I'd put money on the fact that Daddy also helps his little boy!
You mentioned kitchens and starving children. What's wrong with the male partner carrying out these roles? My wife and I share the house-hold chores.
Why do we have to stereotype gender into positions in life? If someone is capable of doing as job they should be given as much encouragement as possible.
I noticed a couple of comments about "Daddy helping his little girl"! I'd put money on the fact that Daddy also helps his little boy!
Moderator
In my years of flying (and being a hangar rat) I have never been treated any differently from the boys by colleagues, employers, students etc. Maybe I've just been lucky, (or incredibly insensitive!)Passengers occasionally, I've been asked to "make coffee luv while we wait for the real pilot to arrive", but a bit of humour is all that's needed to sort out misunderstandings there. No need to prove anything just get the job done right.
But I must confess to finding people (usually from outside aviation)saying "you've done so well..for a girl" rather patronising. I haven't done anything spectacular, just got on with it like all the other guys and girls. It's not as if it's heavy physical work, so what's the big deal?
Having said all that I have come across some women who were treated with contempt and/or ridicule but sorry sisters, that's what happens if you act like a prima donna.
[This message has been edited by Charlie Foxtrot India (edited 19 June 2001).]
But I must confess to finding people (usually from outside aviation)saying "you've done so well..for a girl" rather patronising. I haven't done anything spectacular, just got on with it like all the other guys and girls. It's not as if it's heavy physical work, so what's the big deal?
Having said all that I have come across some women who were treated with contempt and/or ridicule but sorry sisters, that's what happens if you act like a prima donna.
[This message has been edited by Charlie Foxtrot India (edited 19 June 2001).]
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Charlie Fox India made the point I wanted to hear. "What's the big deal?"
Making a point of the difference between men and women does nothing for the cause of equality. Political correctness so often results in the ridiculing of the groups it sets out to protect.
Qualifications, ability, suitability.
All my respect goes out to a female colleague who turned down a press event featuring the company's first all female crew.
And if anyone has me down as a chauvinistic tyrant, I'm with Kipling. "The female of HER species is more deadly than the male!"
Making a point of the difference between men and women does nothing for the cause of equality. Political correctness so often results in the ridiculing of the groups it sets out to protect.
Qualifications, ability, suitability.
All my respect goes out to a female colleague who turned down a press event featuring the company's first all female crew.
And if anyone has me down as a chauvinistic tyrant, I'm with Kipling. "The female of HER species is more deadly than the male!"
Guest
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You know, a thread like this really brings out the dinosaurs, does it not?
Most women are not as strong as most men.
Therin ends the difference professionally speaking.
When men in every industry (not just ours) accept this we will be getting somewhere.
Doc C.
Most women are not as strong as most men.
Therin ends the difference professionally speaking.
When men in every industry (not just ours) accept this we will be getting somewhere.
Doc C.
Moderator
One thing that surprises me is that "female pilots" should be an issue at all. The whole world was male dominated in all professions until WW2 changed everything, but even before that we had the likes of Amy Johnson, Amelia Earhart, Beryl Markham and co doing what most people wouldn't dream of doing these days without all the latest GPS technology. During WW2 the (often forgotten) Air Transport Auxiliary ladies were out there positioning the RAF fighter planes, which were often in a very sorry state of repair.
So nowadays there is no reason why women doing any job at all should surprise people.
So nowadays there is no reason why women doing any job at all should surprise people.
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If you read Beryl Markham's biography it says that until the WW2 one third of all licence holders were women, it makes you wonder why only 6% of PPL and 2% of CPL/ATPL holders today are women.
In a professional caqpacity have only ever had one derogatory comment and that was from a passenger.
Oh, and Dr Cruces, it is a well known fact that women have greater stamina than men and until we all realise that there probably won't be enough women on the long haul flight deck. Go back to your cave doc, in the modern airliner strength is not an issue.
In a professional caqpacity have only ever had one derogatory comment and that was from a passenger.
Oh, and Dr Cruces, it is a well known fact that women have greater stamina than men and until we all realise that there probably won't be enough women on the long haul flight deck. Go back to your cave doc, in the modern airliner strength is not an issue.
Guest
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Pandora.
I think you misunderstood the docs' meaning, that being that not ALL men are stronger than ALL women. And that was his only comment on the issue.
Refresh my mind, would you. How long did those three women last on the Royal Marine commando course with their greater stamina?
And then there is the genetics to be discussed. It is suspected that the price men pay for a better mechanical understanding is autism. That's why 9 out of 10 autistic children are male.
I think you misunderstood the docs' meaning, that being that not ALL men are stronger than ALL women. And that was his only comment on the issue.
Refresh my mind, would you. How long did those three women last on the Royal Marine commando course with their greater stamina?
And then there is the genetics to be discussed. It is suspected that the price men pay for a better mechanical understanding is autism. That's why 9 out of 10 autistic children are male.
Guest
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Mr Moto, I have just read your comments, are you for real? Or are you just winding others up? Suspect it might be the latter or you suffer severely from an inferiority complex. My wife and I both fly, she is a CCQ First Officer with Cathay Pacific, has been flying for 10 years prior to getting on with CX, and she has done it alot harder than I ever did prior to getting her break. I suggest you talk to her if you want your attitude sorted out about female pilots. She constantly amazes me with her ability, and her technical knowlegde. By the way, CCQ means Cross-Crew Qaulification, on the A340 and A330, just in case your autisim gets in the way of understanding what that means.
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To an F16 with engine trouble, "You're number 2 behind the B52 with one engine shut down." Reply "Oh no, not the dreaded 7 engine approach!"
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To an F16 with engine trouble, "You're number 2 behind the B52 with one engine shut down." Reply "Oh no, not the dreaded 7 engine approach!"
Guest
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Been there, done that:
Married a female pilot 16 years ago, then divorced her 4 years later.
Not very impressed.
Some of the girls I have met in the cockpit has certainly impressed, but some have not.
(Like male ones I guess)
Worked for a female chief pilot in Alaska many years ago, she did get my attention:
Pretty AND smart...
Are ya out there on PPRuNe Kim Goodman?
Give me a shout.
[email protected]
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Men, this is no drill...
Married a female pilot 16 years ago, then divorced her 4 years later.
Not very impressed.
Some of the girls I have met in the cockpit has certainly impressed, but some have not.
(Like male ones I guess)
Worked for a female chief pilot in Alaska many years ago, she did get my attention:
Pretty AND smart...
Are ya out there on PPRuNe Kim Goodman?
Give me a shout.
[email protected]
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Men, this is no drill...
Guest
Posts: n/a
It is indeed good to see more female pilots.
Unfortunately, it is not very easy for us. So many of us have admired the blue skies but only the few of us has made it.
Most women who act like tomb boys or dykes seems to be treated better and easely accepted as well. For the rest of us, we have to work twice as hard to prove ourselves.
I learned my lessons early enough. I was an FAA certified Airframe and Powerplant technician before I got my pilot certificates. At first, nobody wanted to hire me as an aircraft maintenance engineer, even when I finally got hired, my workmates didn't want me there, and they bet I wasn't going to last 90 days. I was the first female tech they ever have, and I still do share locker room with the men.
They said and did discouraging things to me. I am only 5'7" weigh 125 Lbs but I had to lift a 200 lbs main landing gear tire by myself just because I choose that proffesion. I would go home after work and cry for hours but I couldn't afford to complain or quit because this job paid good enough to fund my flight training.
I knew if I wanted to keep my job, I had to turn every negative situation into a learning experience.
And now, 2 years later, not only that I own a set of pink screw drivers but I am also one of the fastest, efficient, and I train new hires on various aircraft maintenance. All that weight lifting has given me the best lean body, and the guys are my best friends. They even invite me on their social gatherings. They have also just reveal to me that some of the guys had bet on who was going to bed me first. So far, none of them yet. I joke with them that they can look but they can't touch.I also deal with pilots on daily basis, they also respect me as well. This December I will be graduating with my bachelor degree in Airline Administration and enough flying hours to switch from maintenance to flight. In short, we have to work hard at first but at the end we will be happy campers. I wouldn't trade my experience for anything because they made me a strong individual that I am today. I am sure dealing with one male co-pilot would be nothing compare to 12 Michigan rednecks at once.
Unfortunately, it is not very easy for us. So many of us have admired the blue skies but only the few of us has made it.
Most women who act like tomb boys or dykes seems to be treated better and easely accepted as well. For the rest of us, we have to work twice as hard to prove ourselves.
I learned my lessons early enough. I was an FAA certified Airframe and Powerplant technician before I got my pilot certificates. At first, nobody wanted to hire me as an aircraft maintenance engineer, even when I finally got hired, my workmates didn't want me there, and they bet I wasn't going to last 90 days. I was the first female tech they ever have, and I still do share locker room with the men.
They said and did discouraging things to me. I am only 5'7" weigh 125 Lbs but I had to lift a 200 lbs main landing gear tire by myself just because I choose that proffesion. I would go home after work and cry for hours but I couldn't afford to complain or quit because this job paid good enough to fund my flight training.
I knew if I wanted to keep my job, I had to turn every negative situation into a learning experience.
And now, 2 years later, not only that I own a set of pink screw drivers but I am also one of the fastest, efficient, and I train new hires on various aircraft maintenance. All that weight lifting has given me the best lean body, and the guys are my best friends. They even invite me on their social gatherings. They have also just reveal to me that some of the guys had bet on who was going to bed me first. So far, none of them yet. I joke with them that they can look but they can't touch.I also deal with pilots on daily basis, they also respect me as well. This December I will be graduating with my bachelor degree in Airline Administration and enough flying hours to switch from maintenance to flight. In short, we have to work hard at first but at the end we will be happy campers. I wouldn't trade my experience for anything because they made me a strong individual that I am today. I am sure dealing with one male co-pilot would be nothing compare to 12 Michigan rednecks at once.