New Chinese narrowbody, would you take the helm?
... that said, several thousand tons of cheap Chinese rubbish is now in UK landfill, powertools that last a week or a month at best, copies (often illegal) of Japanese utility engines and contractor eqpt etc.
So go figure who is at fault over the technical specifications and product quality.
And trust me - buying & selling from / to China has been my living for many years; the buyers are at least half of the problem.
If you fly a 737NG, your aircraft's vertical fin was made in Xián. China has been making EMB145s, Dauphins and Do 228s under license. A320s will be made in Tianjin very soon. Mercedes C class cars made in China are acknowleged to be of better quality that the ones made in the US.
So the answer is yes. I would fly it.
(My company is getting some of those 320s).
So the answer is yes. I would fly it.
(My company is getting some of those 320s).
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Melbourne, China
Posts: 324
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
China already has an A320 final assembly plant located not too far from Beijing. So the A320 you may be flying in the future, may infact be assembled in China!
First Airbus final assembly line outside Europe inaugurated in Tianjin, China
First Airbus final assembly line outside Europe inaugurated in Tianjin, China
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: LONDON
Age: 51
Posts: 525
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A bit of a strange thread this one. It is like asking if you would boycott a product of china's without knowing if its the best thing since sliced bread or a rickshaw of the skies.
Why would a plane just because it is desgined and built in China be any less safe than one built in the USA or EUROPE.
It will after all have to meet the safety certifcation standards for each country they intend to fly them in to.
A poorly maintained boeing/airbus can rightfully be considered a danger, but its got nothing to do with where its made.
Why would a plane just because it is desgined and built in China be any less safe than one built in the USA or EUROPE.
It will after all have to meet the safety certifcation standards for each country they intend to fly them in to.
A poorly maintained boeing/airbus can rightfully be considered a danger, but its got nothing to do with where its made.
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Asian Region:
Posts: 140
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ignorance:
HarryMann:
You need educating and a good place to start would be to inform you of a famous quotation by Chairman Mao Zedong who said, Quote: " If you don't have all the facts and don't fully understand the problem you are not entitled to speak" Unquote. This fits you to a tee so I suggest you take it on board and start updating your thinking. While you are at it you might care to re-read what Rubik101 has to say about junk produced in the UK.
828a
You need educating and a good place to start would be to inform you of a famous quotation by Chairman Mao Zedong who said, Quote: " If you don't have all the facts and don't fully understand the problem you are not entitled to speak" Unquote. This fits you to a tee so I suggest you take it on board and start updating your thinking. While you are at it you might care to re-read what Rubik101 has to say about junk produced in the UK.
828a
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: london
Posts: 379
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Constant Spec, constant QC; PRC subscribes to the same UN (ICAO) Technical-matters conventions as the rest of us do. TWA flew 5 MD83 from 1994, assembled in Shanghai. Licence-assembly programs now have a gradual move to local fabrication from local basic metals: that gives eye-watering potential cost reductions. As LT says, Buyer must deal with (the "paper trail", as was) record-keeping: gaps here have caused premature parting-out of Chinese-operated Western equipment. If Ford could build fine Merlins in 1941, their site a target for the Luftwaffe, best assume PRC will continue to deliver, on-Spec, on-time anything they choose.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Herts, UK
Posts: 748
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
828a
Whoa there 
Did I say the Chinese don't make anything any good? No
What point was I making, any idea? No!
I was making an environmental point, that:
a) Making seriously sub-standard products (by any measure) costs energy and pollution
b) Shipping them to the West costs energy
c) Selling and then them packing up after 1/10th the life they should takes energy
d) Scrapping, managing and sorting the waste takes energy (and some gets into landfill, pollution)
e) Shipping the scrap steel and rare metals etc back to China takes energy and pollution
I agree - buyers/sellers like R0!son are responsible for low specs, make to a price, but then the following example is not just low spec. but plain poor quality control and carelessness.
I have a R0!son jetwash, powered by a Chinese copy of a Honda utility engine: It was given me by someone who bought it new. It had never started once, from new due to a camshaft assembly error (Internal, requiring crankcases to be split)
I am sure the buyer didn't specify that they don't start
But yes, if they paid them Ł1 more for product testing and inspection it probably wouldn't happen.. so they're both to blame. Fact is, neither care!
PS. The perishable parts are just that, so all that metal casting and machining and shipping and distribution costs would anyway, not result in a reasonable utilisation over a reasonable period.
It seems far from ignorant making this point, although you seem to lack the intelligence to comprehend it
Did I say the Chinese don't make anything any good? No
What point was I making, any idea? No!
I was making an environmental point, that:
a) Making seriously sub-standard products (by any measure) costs energy and pollution
b) Shipping them to the West costs energy
c) Selling and then them packing up after 1/10th the life they should takes energy
d) Scrapping, managing and sorting the waste takes energy (and some gets into landfill, pollution)
e) Shipping the scrap steel and rare metals etc back to China takes energy and pollution
The Chinese produce to the buyers spec for the buyers price, the Chinese factories and the Chinese products are often audited by the buyers or the appointed agents of the buyers.
I have a R0!son jetwash, powered by a Chinese copy of a Honda utility engine: It was given me by someone who bought it new. It had never started once, from new due to a camshaft assembly error (Internal, requiring crankcases to be split)
I am sure the buyer didn't specify that they don't start
But yes, if they paid them Ł1 more for product testing and inspection it probably wouldn't happen.. so they're both to blame. Fact is, neither care!
PS. The perishable parts are just that, so all that metal casting and machining and shipping and distribution costs would anyway, not result in a reasonable utilisation over a reasonable period.
It seems far from ignorant making this point, although you seem to lack the intelligence to comprehend it
Last edited by HarryMann; 8th Mar 2009 at 10:38.
Guest
Posts: n/a
China already has an A320 final assembly plant located not too far from Beijing. So the A320 you may be flying in the future, may infact be assembled in China!
And also there are larger amounts of orders from Chinese carriers so they may only in Chinese market. Like those assembled in China Audis, Merceds, BMWs,ONLY THERE WITHIN Chinese market.
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Europe
Posts: 1,416
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
several thousand tons of cheap Chinese rubbish is now in UK landfill, powertools that last a week or a month
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: netherlands
Age: 56
Posts: 769
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It seems they are progressing fast.
GE says they are confident to power the C919. question is if they will offer the state of the art LeapX engine.
GE says confident of winning China engine contract - Yahoo! Finance
That could make it 15% more efficient the current narrowbodies.
A long variant is planned offering more then 200 seats and A320 containers competability..
Airbus and Boeing sofar siad >2020 for their new designs.
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Sin City
Posts: 279
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Has it gone through the FAA and EASA tests yet ?
Based on my experience with China made electrical products, I would stay away from them. Had a fan a few months old almost catching fire. A MP3 player going kaput after just a few months.
Generally, these products are cheap knockoffs from their western counterparts. On the exterior they look almost the same, but on the inside, the parts are always inferior leading to their short lives. Basically, you pay peanuts, you get monkeys.
Also, it's not a matter of where it's made, but who's managing the plant. I would feel safer if there was some sort of official collaboration or technical sharing from Boeing or Airbus.
I know, it's a politically incorrect statement to say an aircraft is unsafe just because of where it's made or the nationality of the people making it.. But, there have been numerous times when products from China came out on the news for the wrong reasons. E.g: melamine laced foods, industrial additives laced medicine, structurally unsound buildings. Their QC is non-existent.
Hope that C919 would prove me wrong. Only time would tell.
Based on my experience with China made electrical products, I would stay away from them. Had a fan a few months old almost catching fire. A MP3 player going kaput after just a few months.
Generally, these products are cheap knockoffs from their western counterparts. On the exterior they look almost the same, but on the inside, the parts are always inferior leading to their short lives. Basically, you pay peanuts, you get monkeys.
Also, it's not a matter of where it's made, but who's managing the plant. I would feel safer if there was some sort of official collaboration or technical sharing from Boeing or Airbus.
I know, it's a politically incorrect statement to say an aircraft is unsafe just because of where it's made or the nationality of the people making it.. But, there have been numerous times when products from China came out on the news for the wrong reasons. E.g: melamine laced foods, industrial additives laced medicine, structurally unsound buildings. Their QC is non-existent.
Hope that C919 would prove me wrong. Only time would tell.
Last edited by leewan; 8th Sep 2009 at 15:30.
Looks like a perfect copy of the ERJ-195.
If it can match the seat costs of the 737-800 it would make good business sense for FR to buy 1000 as someone suggested. Same costs with 60% of the seats (i.e. 60% of the exposure).
Would be interesting to see the fuel consumption figures.
If it can match the seat costs of the 737-800 it would make good business sense for FR to buy 1000 as someone suggested. Same costs with 60% of the seats (i.e. 60% of the exposure).
Would be interesting to see the fuel consumption figures.
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Canadian Shield
Posts: 538
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Surely no country would allow its certification authorities to permit a rushed design to make it into production with underlying structural flaws, false ship-modification records, unauthorised maintenance procedures etc etc etc... 
DC-10 anyone?
DC-10 anyone?
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Cloud 9
Posts: 2,948
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Only this evening I have been looking at booking myself flights with carrier 'Zest Airways' and looking at their fleet info realised I would be flying on a:
The MA60 is an advanced 50-60 seat class regional turboprop aircraft developed by Xi'an Aircraft Company of China aviation Industry Corporation I (AVICI).
I'd never heard of the thing but, in my time, having flown on some rust bucket Antonov 24's, Yak 42's & TU-134's at least this time I'll be flying on modern equipment!
The MA60 is an advanced 50-60 seat class regional turboprop aircraft developed by Xi'an Aircraft Company of China aviation Industry Corporation I (AVICI).
I'd never heard of the thing but, in my time, having flown on some rust bucket Antonov 24's, Yak 42's & TU-134's at least this time I'll be flying on modern equipment!
