BOAC

No doubt to howls of protest, I hae re-opened a few old threads and merged them here as this IS an important topic both for the 'Spotters' themselves and for security issues.

Please use this thread to discuss the implications for spotters particularly following the incident at Glasgow on 30/6/07

HZ123

Can someone update me on how this initiative works/is still working etc. The last thing reported at LHR was that it would cost £15 a head to administer the scheme. With the new scheme of security training for all airport / ID holders about to commence it would seem important the spotters scheme happens?

HEATHROW DIRECTOR

I presume you're referring to the scheme organised by LAAS? I know little about it other than what I've read on their web site but when I first read it I couldn't believe it! In basic terms, anyone who joins LAAS can obtain a "pass". This will not authorise entry to anywhere but is supposed to infer to the "authorities" that the holder is a bona fide individual. Without proper vetting how can this be? Anyone, but ANYONE can join LAAS and obtain a pass free of charge... Just how does this procedure ensure that the holder is a "real enthusiast"?
Recently, aircraft spotters who were able to prove their identity and were watching aircraft from a public road were apprehended by the police and issued with "tickets" stating that they had been interviewed as possible terrorist suspects. Would the possession of an LAAS card have prevented this? If it would, I would join LAAS tomorrow.
Just to assure you - my wife and I are both avid spotters but have never been apprehended even after standing for long hours at the ends of Heathrows runways. Maybe our extreme age suggests to the police that a) we're harmless and b) obviously not terrorists.
I don't know the answer but having lived all my life in "secure" environments and having to hold this and that pass I am far from convinced that the LAAS scheme is of any real use.
Someone please assure me otherwise.....

GOLF-INDIA BRAVO

worthless bit of paper I think, as you say proves nothing
lot better if you let police know you are there and what you are doing.
In Manchester spotters and police work together

G-I-B

Mogget

Heathrow may be the largest and busiest airport in Britain, but for spotters and other members of the general public that want to watch/photograph/film airliners at a major airport, Manchester is second to none. It is a shining example of what actually happens when airport authorities work with aircraft enthusiasts, and not against them.

It stands to reason that spotters would report any suspicious activity immediately, simply because any security breaches could ultimately have a direct impact on them. I marvel that certain airport authorities don't recognise that obvious fact.

AlanM

......seems a waste of a resource to me.... all those camera lenses that could catch anything suspicious.

MAN777

Does anybody know the situation at Paris CDG re photography, I heard they have created a new offence is this true ?

Gulf4uk

HI

The full details are on the Spotters website link below although when this was brought out it appeared to be more for Heathrow spotters sorry but that is the impression i got . most Police forces had not heard of it and today was the first time i have heard it mentioned in a long time

http://www.laasdata.com/taess.html

The one concern i had and still do was the phone number quoted to speak to a police officer my feelings are if you see somone acting suspicious at an Airport you must dial 999 any delay could be real Dodgy ok many calls could be nothing but why take a chance 999 is the only number to call.
Its now a fact of life at Airports , bus and rail Stations Spotters are going to get stopped but in some cases its the Same officers stopping the same people every day it get tedious but nothing we can do no card scheme will stop this happening just be polite and Show ID a UK driving licience i find is best if you have one or your Passport if overseas
Tony
farnborough

ALLDAYDELI

that Paris situation was posted a week or two back, there is a restriction. I cust & pasted something there. Look back on a few threads.

BOAC

Posts 129 and 130 on the 'Spotting' sticky.

Gulf4uk

HI

The Editorial ive just Read in a spotters magazine APRIL2006 PAGE 244
it has a picture of Red Arrows so you can find it on front ,sums up the
whole Situation which possibly could get even worse for Everyone not just
spotters .using a camera at or near an airport could be expensive

tony
farnborough

Mogget

Can you elaborate ?

Gulf4uk

hi

Yes Editorial says that the law on no Phography is to spread to all french
airports with a fine of 450euros (300 pound)and increased police activity
in UK under Section 44 counter terroism act he wonders how much longer
under the present Government before the same overreaction happens here
and that it was about time people realised that Spotters stand out a mile
and could be highly cost effective if the authoitys used there presence
instead of criminalizing it . make sence really thats the problem hardly
anyone bothers to use there brains its what spotters have been saying for
ages and well here At Farnborough with the SBAC Show in July the police
it seems will need boxes of paper if this keeps up We dont mind the searches
going in to the show at all but there will be hundreds around the perimeter
so i hope common sence prevails somehow i fear not

Tony

PaperTiger

This topic has come up a number of times in some photo blogs. Although the police often try to bluff and initmidate (as reported - I have no personal experience), their authorised actions under Section 44 are quite clear. Here is a summary, the accuracy of which I cannot confirm - perhaps a lawyer or police officer can.Most (all ?) airports are designated special areas as above.

Mogget

I have said elsewhere on this forum that spotters could be very useful as a kind of "outer perimeter" security force. They are there to enjoy watching airliners, and nothing more. Anything suspicious would be reported immediately, since it is in the spotter's interest to maintain good relations with airport security and the police.

I sincerely hope that this will not affect my attempts to film airliners at various British airports (particularly Manchester), as I would very much like to make some money from selling airport DVDs in the near future.

skiddyiom

I was at LCY yesterday, taking photographs, having flown in from the IOM. After around 2 hours a security operative approached me and informed me that taking photographs there was illegal and I would have to obtain permission to do so. I contested this, saying nowhere is this posted.

Howeve, I hied myself off to the Customer Service desk and enquired. I was told to call a number which I did. I was then told that under no circumstances would I be allowed to take pictures at LCY and I should take the matter up with the Airport Director.

So I went to the Jet Centre end of the airport and stood under the approach for a while, being passed by several marked Police cars who took not a blind bit of notice of this idiot with a camera standing almost where I was.

If indeed there is a no photography policy at LCY then it should be posted and made obvious. However, I would question the validity of such a ban as there is an area just outside the terminal with seating for people to watch the aircraft. The actions here smack of overreaction and ignorance.

If this sort of thing becomes de-rigour at other airports then spotters are going to be well and truly stuffed!

Andy

LN-KGL

Just to remind you - there is an anti-terrorism hotline for UK 0800 789321.
Here is a link showing the poster that Greater Manchester Police started to distibute at MAN a couple of years ago: http://www.ringwayreports.co.uk/anti-terror_poster.jpg

As a consequence of this, all my spotter guides for UK airports have this hotline printed on it. The spotter guide for Heathrow also have suggestion for how to behave when being approached by the police. In September I had a close contact with a threesome outside T4 at LHR, and as long as you knew your aircraft, answered their few questions in friendly tone they didn't create any problems for me.

The one page Acrobat formatted spotter guides can be downloaded from here (right column):
http://www.plane-spotter.com/Airports/index.htm

Kurt - editor PLANE-SPOTTER.com - the non-commercial aviation enthusiast website

G-CPTN

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bristol/6491261.stm
Will we see similar 'cooperation' at other airports?

Avman

They're not the first. Manchester and Vienna come to mind. It's a great idea and more airports should follow suit. Trouble is that most of them seem to get some perverted pleasure by making life as difficult as possible for spotters! The outcome is that by doing so they actually cause themselves more security headaches than if they provided decent facilities in the first place. To make it effective though, local spotters should be background checked and be issued with local spotter I/Ds. A little admin involved in the beginning, but worthwhile I would think.

Avman

He's one of only a few left. Although it is a generalisation, the fundamental problem these days is that the majority of airport managers/directors/CEOs have no passion for aviation and as such cannot comprehend that a large proportion of the population do - including many who are active in the field. They are so indifferent and short-sighted that they fail to understand that the elimination of good viewing/photographic facilities does not enhance security, it actually achieves quite the opposite. Bravo to the attitudes of Manchester and Bristol. Heathrow and Gatwick, wake up!