Lighten our darkness, oh Lord! The lighting thread
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Don'y think there's any specific reason for it but if anyone watches an ATP or J41 you'll notice that whilst on the ground the anti-colls are flashing red but the moment the wheels leave the ground they switch to white. Not sure what that's all about??
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Most modern aircraft have two settings for the landing lights. Constant required at night time for obvious reasons.
Flashing adds to conspicuity during daylight ops.
I think Gulfstream were one of the first to employ this, but happy to be corrected.
Flashing adds to conspicuity during daylight ops.
I think Gulfstream were one of the first to employ this, but happy to be corrected.
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I have only seen this on 737 series airplanes. I was on a maintenance course and the I was told it was a way to have the aircraft noticed by possible conflicts on landing and take off, birds, other aircraft ect..
It had been shown that the steady beams were not very visible during the day and the solid beams were something that other aviators are used to and it can go unoticed due to constant exposure.
I was also told that the intermittent lights did not affect the view of the pilots as they only go off momentarily then on again.
Having said that I have never seen any other types fitted with the flashing or rotating light cycle.
The flashing you see is basically a rotation from on to off of the inboard and outboard landing lights as well as the taxi and turn off lights.
Hope this helps.
It had been shown that the steady beams were not very visible during the day and the solid beams were something that other aviators are used to and it can go unoticed due to constant exposure.
I was also told that the intermittent lights did not affect the view of the pilots as they only go off momentarily then on again.
Having said that I have never seen any other types fitted with the flashing or rotating light cycle.
The flashing you see is basically a rotation from on to off of the inboard and outboard landing lights as well as the taxi and turn off lights.
Hope this helps.
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Lights off inflight?
Quick question, if somebody has time & the inclination to answer, I'd be obliged.
Flew home the other day as pax on a 737. Halfway the flight, suddenly most of the cabin lights switched off. Apart from me, it didn't seem to alarm anybody at all, the CC carried on serving food until the cockpit call bell chimed. The lights came back on a while later.
Purser later mumbled something about a generator having given up the ghost and the pilots having had to switch on the APU.
How does that work?
Do the engines drive a generator that powers the lights?
Never knew the APU could be switched on inflight, always see it get switched off before?
Any light to shed?
Flew home the other day as pax on a 737. Halfway the flight, suddenly most of the cabin lights switched off. Apart from me, it didn't seem to alarm anybody at all, the CC carried on serving food until the cockpit call bell chimed. The lights came back on a while later.
Purser later mumbled something about a generator having given up the ghost and the pilots having had to switch on the APU.
How does that work?
Do the engines drive a generator that powers the lights?
Never knew the APU could be switched on inflight, always see it get switched off before?
Any light to shed?
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
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I do not have the full details of the busbar feeds for the Classic and NG 737s wrt cabin lights. I know that the 'Jurassic' 737s had half the lights on each busbar, so that a generator or engine failure would put out half the lights. I will try it the next time I can (before departure!) for my benefit. Maybe someone here knows?
It sounds as if what you heard is correct, and maybe either the ceiling or wall lights went off? It would take the crew a minute or two to light the APU and connect it to the 'failed' busbar.
A correction to Rainboe's post - on the NG, the APU can supply electrical loads up to the maximum certified aircarft altitude of 41,000'. The limit of 37,000' is for the 'Classic'. Once again Chris Brady has the info!
NB For Rainboe - some companies have different limits
It sounds as if what you heard is correct, and maybe either the ceiling or wall lights went off? It would take the crew a minute or two to light the APU and connect it to the 'failed' busbar.
A correction to Rainboe's post - on the NG, the APU can supply electrical loads up to the maximum certified aircarft altitude of 41,000'. The limit of 37,000' is for the 'Classic'. Once again Chris Brady has the info!
NB For Rainboe - some companies have different limits
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Knowing people that know stuff..... 
Exactly as you say BOAC, half the lights went off, and yes it was on a Jurassic.
So if I have understood this correctly, each engine has its own generator, and they are what is normally used for electricity during the flight. In addition, there is the APU, normally used for the generation of electricity on the ground. With many airports forbidding its use longer than 30 mins before departure time because of the noise pollution, this leave sthe cabin often too hot or too cold for pax boarding, and us FAs begging the pilots to please switch it on.
The APU can also be used inflight and it's no big deal.
Thank you very much gentlemen, anmother bit of ignorance dispatched.
BOAC, Mr Brady now in the favourites; even if reading him is hard with my limited technical knowledge. Still very enlightening.
With the 2 of you in a benevolent mood
would it be possible to explain
"engine bleeds off take-off" to me?
What is it?
Exactly as you say BOAC, half the lights went off, and yes it was on a Jurassic.
So if I have understood this correctly, each engine has its own generator, and they are what is normally used for electricity during the flight. In addition, there is the APU, normally used for the generation of electricity on the ground. With many airports forbidding its use longer than 30 mins before departure time because of the noise pollution, this leave sthe cabin often too hot or too cold for pax boarding, and us FAs begging the pilots to please switch it on.
The APU can also be used inflight and it's no big deal.
Thank you very much gentlemen, anmother bit of ignorance dispatched.
BOAC, Mr Brady now in the favourites; even if reading him is hard with my limited technical knowledge. Still very enlightening.
With the 2 of you in a benevolent mood
would it be possible to explain "engine bleeds off take-off" to me?
What is it?
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
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Surprisingly I cannot find this on CB's site .
In order to produce more thrust at take-off, the aircraft can take-off either 'un-pressurised', or 'pressurised' by using the APU compressor to provide an air supply. This reduces the bleed air demand on the engines, thus either reducing the exhaust temperature at take-off or allowing more thrust to be used.
.In order to produce more thrust at take-off, the aircraft can take-off either 'un-pressurised', or 'pressurised' by using the APU compressor to provide an air supply. This reduces the bleed air demand on the engines, thus either reducing the exhaust temperature at take-off or allowing more thrust to be used.
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A tad condensed there BOAC.
Errrmmmm.....
In order to produce more thrust at take-off, the aircraft can take-off either 'un-pressurised', or 'pressurised'
Errrmmmm.....
- Both unpressurised and pressurised take-offs produce more thrust than a 'normal' take-off?
- So for 'normal' take-off there is a third option? An if so, what would that be?
- More thrust at take-off would be needed for taking off from a shortish runway, for taking off at a high altitude airport where the air is thinner of for a take off with max TOW?
- OK, for a likely even more stupid question, what is the function of this 'extra' air provided either by the APU's compressor or the bleed air from the engines? More air at higher pressure makes for faster/more powerful fuel burning?
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I do realise that you chaps are indulging me here, and that understanding all this is of no use whatsoever to an ageing trolley tart. It's just that I've always been more interested in technical stuff than in reading the Hello!
Point 1) You missed the rest of the quote off -
or 'pressurised' by using the APU compressor to provide an air supply.
Point 2) Not sure what you mean.
Point 3) Yes
Point 4) The 'bleed air' - from whichever source - is used to supply air at a higher pressure to various things, including, in this case, the air conditioning packs.
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Ah yes yes yes! <jumps up and down in ppruning chair excitedly>
I think I am getting it BOAC. It was the punctuation doing me in there. (of course nothing to do with the fact that I don't know my **** from my elbow regarding jet engines)
The extra thrust take-off is achieved by either doing an unpressurised one, or by achieving pressurisation through use of the APU compressor rather than 'stealing' bleed air from the engines, correct?
<looks expectantly at BOAC for a gold star in copybook>
Which inexorably leads to a next question (that saying about a fool and ten wise men has a lot of truth in it) in fact something I have wondered about for years. But I'll save that one for tomorrow, because I will first have to figure out how to make you understand what it is I don't understand.
Also, you well deserve a break from my badgering.
Thank you so far.
I think I am getting it BOAC. It was the punctuation doing me in there. (of course nothing to do with the fact that I don't know my **** from my elbow regarding jet engines)
The extra thrust take-off is achieved by either doing an unpressurised one, or by achieving pressurisation through use of the APU compressor rather than 'stealing' bleed air from the engines, correct?
<looks expectantly at BOAC for a gold star in copybook>
Which inexorably leads to a next question (that saying about a fool and ten wise men has a lot of truth in it) in fact something I have wondered about for years. But I'll save that one for tomorrow, because I will first have to figure out how to make you understand what it is I don't understand.
Also, you well deserve a break from my badgering.
Thank you so far.
Bear Behind
I could give you a gold star if BOAC's not around... Just an extra little bit of info re. APUs and 737s - in order to operate an ETOPS 180 flight (a la Aloha Airlines from the west coast to Hawai'i), the 737 has to have the APU running for the duration of the flight as it has no RAT. It's good safety wise but doesn't half drink fuel up quickly!
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ATC said, "Turn all your lights off"
It had been a very long flight in the Arrow Air DC-8/62, transportng C.A.R.E. supplies from Frankfurt to Baku and Ashkhabad in Turkmenistan, unable to shut-down, all but one engine for power while unloading and fueling, since old soviet APU's were considered a weeks vacation in the heartland.
While returning to Istanbul to pick-up a B-707 engine for the return trip to Frankfurt, extremely tired and way-over our legal limit, communications with Moscow ATC sucked 90% of the time. Following NDB's not on our charts, the controllers throughout the trip continued to make our flight less than enjoyable. (No...they didn't have the coordinates for the NDB's but conjured up something for us) We managed most of the way, even though I had a First Officer right-out of training, with absolutely no international experience.
Here we are trolling along near Tbilisi Georgia, on a computer flight plan issued by a kid in Miami's Operations.....when Moscow says, "You must turn left now...turn left, turn your lights off, you are in a war zone!"
The "oh crap" factor kicked-in, the lights were turned off, and a hard left was executed. We later discovered the State Department Notams about that area were readily available to our dispatch, which in-turn was suppose to flight plan us accordingly, while also providing the Notams....you idiots!!
Well, we lived, didn't get shot-down, and kept-on trucking towards Istanbul when ATC tells us that Istanbul cannot accept anymore traffic, therefore descend and fly direct to the Ankara ??? outer marker.
WHAT??? "Hey first officer, pull-out the Ankara ILS!" Quickly please!!
FO: "I can't find it??"
CA: "Ask ATC for the info, including the ILS information."
While on approach to Ankara in the middle of the night with about 1 mile visibility from dust, we lose all hydraulics.
Our F/E and the mechanic did a great job through the night, and by mid-morning we were off to Istanbul to pick-up the jet engine, that would not fit through the door. Six hours of this and that, they managed to load it, and off to Frankfurt we flew.
A little secret was waiting for us upon arrival. We were laid-off.
Ahhh, the life of a Freight Dog, Miami style.....
Capt. Dave Bertrand (Ret.)
Disclaimer: Capt. Dave lives in Tennessee and retired early, living on his 30 acre cattle ranch, and promotes his DC-8 DVD video, sold in over 14 countries since 2001. He would not have ever traded flying freight around the world for flying passengers between Rochester and Atlanta for United, when he had the chance. Dave Bertrand asserts that international freight pilots are some of the best pilots in the world, and are paid a whole lot less.
While returning to Istanbul to pick-up a B-707 engine for the return trip to Frankfurt, extremely tired and way-over our legal limit, communications with Moscow ATC sucked 90% of the time. Following NDB's not on our charts, the controllers throughout the trip continued to make our flight less than enjoyable. (No...they didn't have the coordinates for the NDB's but conjured up something for us) We managed most of the way, even though I had a First Officer right-out of training, with absolutely no international experience.
Here we are trolling along near Tbilisi Georgia, on a computer flight plan issued by a kid in Miami's Operations.....when Moscow says, "You must turn left now...turn left, turn your lights off, you are in a war zone!"
The "oh crap" factor kicked-in, the lights were turned off, and a hard left was executed. We later discovered the State Department Notams about that area were readily available to our dispatch, which in-turn was suppose to flight plan us accordingly, while also providing the Notams....you idiots!!
Well, we lived, didn't get shot-down, and kept-on trucking towards Istanbul when ATC tells us that Istanbul cannot accept anymore traffic, therefore descend and fly direct to the Ankara ??? outer marker.
WHAT??? "Hey first officer, pull-out the Ankara ILS!" Quickly please!!
FO: "I can't find it??"
CA: "Ask ATC for the info, including the ILS information."
While on approach to Ankara in the middle of the night with about 1 mile visibility from dust, we lose all hydraulics.
Our F/E and the mechanic did a great job through the night, and by mid-morning we were off to Istanbul to pick-up the jet engine, that would not fit through the door. Six hours of this and that, they managed to load it, and off to Frankfurt we flew.
A little secret was waiting for us upon arrival. We were laid-off.
Ahhh, the life of a Freight Dog, Miami style.....
Capt. Dave Bertrand (Ret.)
Disclaimer: Capt. Dave lives in Tennessee and retired early, living on his 30 acre cattle ranch, and promotes his DC-8 DVD video, sold in over 14 countries since 2001. He would not have ever traded flying freight around the world for flying passengers between Rochester and Atlanta for United, when he had the chance. Dave Bertrand asserts that international freight pilots are some of the best pilots in the world, and are paid a whole lot less.
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C130 - Odd Lighting?
lo folks,
About 2 hours ago we had a C-130 leisurely fly over the house below 100ft. It was heading South West towards Exeter. The house being in West Dorset at the top end of the Exeter approach (roughly). Nothing odd about that I know. Saying that we just had a Chinook pass below 100ft heading North East. Last week it was Merlins.
What was odd about this C130 was the array of lights on the rear of the plane. On the left and right wing (as seen from behind) were three white lights. They were evenly spaced from one another. There were two lights on the rear of the tail. One on top and the second half way down. I have provided a picture below depicting what i saw.
(The yellow dots represent lights)
Now I've seen C130's at night from all angles many times. Spotting and at work (Civie at RNAS Yeovilton). Ive never seen these lights before. Without coming across as a conspiracist the first thing that ran through my head was it looked like a landing guidance assist system of some sort. I might be talking nonsense and the lights might be a part of the Herc i never knew about - I'ts why im asking.
Cheers,
Luke
About 2 hours ago we had a C-130 leisurely fly over the house below 100ft. It was heading South West towards Exeter. The house being in West Dorset at the top end of the Exeter approach (roughly). Nothing odd about that I know. Saying that we just had a Chinook pass below 100ft heading North East. Last week it was Merlins.
What was odd about this C130 was the array of lights on the rear of the plane. On the left and right wing (as seen from behind) were three white lights. They were evenly spaced from one another. There were two lights on the rear of the tail. One on top and the second half way down. I have provided a picture below depicting what i saw.
(The yellow dots represent lights)
Now I've seen C130's at night from all angles many times. Spotting and at work (Civie at RNAS Yeovilton). Ive never seen these lights before. Without coming across as a conspiracist the first thing that ran through my head was it looked like a landing guidance assist system of some sort. I might be talking nonsense and the lights might be a part of the Herc i never knew about - I'ts why im asking.
Cheers,
Luke
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<<About 2 hours ago we had a C-130 leisurely fly over the house below 100ft.>>
I'm very sorely tempted to say I cannot believe this, but I have to accept what you believe to be the height. If it did that over my house it would hit my radio tower!!
I'm very sorely tempted to say I cannot believe this, but I have to accept what you believe to be the height. If it did that over my house it would hit my radio tower!!
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Lo folks,
@ATCO17 Cheers buddy. Cleared up a little mystery in the house!
@HEATHROW DIRECTOR lols the amount of time ive spent in Yeoviltons VCP i know my heights :P and yeah it is low. It used to be 3 - 4 times a night untill we complained about 5 years ago. Not that we mind much, just a new aerial was built right in the flight path where they used to pop over the ridge. We got fed up holding our breaths at 3am wondering if were about to witness a 130 losing its wing!
cheers folks
Luke
@ATCO17 Cheers buddy. Cleared up a little mystery in the house!
@HEATHROW DIRECTOR lols the amount of time ive spent in Yeoviltons VCP i know my heights :P and yeah it is low. It used to be 3 - 4 times a night untill we complained about 5 years ago. Not that we mind much, just a new aerial was built right in the flight path where they used to pop over the ridge. We got fed up holding our breaths at 3am wondering if were about to witness a 130 losing its wing!
cheers folks
Luke
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Luke, you're welcome for the help there, but I have to question your height assessment....Fixed wing Mil aircraft (apart from light ones) are only allowed to transit below 250 feet in certain areas of the UK, and even then, not below 100 feet MSD (Minimum separation distance), unless departing / approaching an aerodrome. I'd accept that a C130 might look lower, but if he was below 250 feet in your part of the world, he was perhaps bending the rules a little!