Stretchwell

The lights are formation lights and absolutely nothing to do with SKE. All your talk about " below 100ft" etc is, I'm sorry to say, a load of ill-informed rubbish.

Ok, rant over !!

.....but it does annoy me when such complete garbage is written !!

HEATHROW DIRECTOR

Problem here, with the greatest respect, is that Luke f is a young person and possibly not an aviation professional and perkin does not reveal his details so we have to assume that he too is not an av prof.

It is a fact of life that the human brain is almost incapable of accurately assessing heights and distances. During my working life I fielded any number of telephone calls from pilots, ATCOs and other aviation-types who believed they had seen something "scary" aloft, ie two aircraft about to hit. In every case, the aircraft were legally separated.

It's no good us professionals TRYING to tell them otherwise... I escorted a group of anti-noise people round Heathrow ATC once. The rather stupid chairman told me in no uncertain terms that he was concerned about Heathrow inbound a/c flying down Windsor High Street at 5-600 feet. He would not accept that he was wrong. I showed him the SSR which proved that the aircraft were around 1,200 ft but he would not have it - claimed we had "fixed" the radar for his visit!!

This very day my wife and I came back from Jersey on a fast catamaran. We wathed two large ships through binoculars and were convinced that they were keeping very close station on each other - no more than yards apart. As our ferry turned north across the track of the ships we saw that they were actually a couple of miles apart!!

The only professionals I would ever believe regarding estimated heights are met observers. They can estimate cloud heights to a very high degree of accuracy. Everyone else....? No way Jose!

Don't forget what Father Ted said: "This one is small; that one is a long way away".

Stretchwell

Dear Perkin - you are suggesting night time below 100ft in peace time in the UK?? Sorry but garbage is being kind to you - you really are out of your depth on this topic. I suggest you restrict any contributions to topics you may have any knowledge of and not make ridiculous remarks on a subject that you obviously do not understand.

Nothing personal, honest !!

robin

I hear what you say about flying heights, but from my house in Mid Devon (it seems like it's a turning point from the Exe Valley towards Dunkeswell) I can see C130s night flying from my lounge window.

The house is at 400' AMSL, and when sitting in my chair on the ground floor the a/c are below this height using the valleys as a standard route.

I would estimate flying heights of some of these a/c at around 300' AMSL/200' AGL in my area

Stretchwell

Hi Robin. A Herc could be 149 feet below the level of your lounge and still be 251ft MSD (Minimum Separation Distance) so totally legal (although I am presuming the valley floor to be at sea level). Hercs are big and often look much lower than they are in reality. Flying in the valleys can also give the impression that aircraft are lower than they actually are.
Hope you enjoy the flybys !!

robin

I'm not objecting to the fly-bys, except, perhaps that being so low in the valley, they tend to disppear behind my hedge

Stretchwell

Glad you enjoy the flybys - from what you say they are perfectly legal and legitimate training for our guys.

FutureController

I've heard different things about the custom when switching landing lights on and off for commercial airline flights. I live about 50 miles from KLAX - right under a route for some of the Eastern-bound flights - mostly from 24L/R (I am just at the Southern base of Saddleback Mountain). The pilot(s) are typically just switching the lights off as they go over my place between 18,000 and 24,000 feet and roughly 400 knots, but this varies by about 40-60 miles. Am I correct when I imagine they are going through some sort of post-takeoff checklist and the 1st officer gets around to this about 15 minutes after wheels-up? How does this work?

I just love planes, want to fly someday, just starting my commercial flight and Aviation Science degrees at Mount San Antonio College, and fly as much as I can on FSX. Any words of encouragement and/or knowledge are more than appreciated! I am so jazzed about the 787 rollout.

Scott

411A

The procedure varies by company.
Some switch off the landing lights at 10,000 ft, others at a higher altitude.
The very best of luck with your future flying.
I've been at it for over forty years...and still going.
If you have more questions, ask away, or send a PM if you prefer.

Of course, I can't answer about newer types, I've been in the 'ole L1011 for a very long time...28 years to be exact.

Ah....Lockheed.
Superb.

BelArgUSA

Hola Scott -
xxx
Yes, in the USA, many airlines do a "climb check" at 18,000 feet, like switching lights off, and twisting the altimeter to standard at that time, maybe even call the cabin staff for an "emergency" cup of tea. As 411A says, other airlines, other countries do all that "climb check" at 10,000 feet.
xxx
I see you are at Mt.SAC... Used to lecture occasionally there in the 1970s, they have among the best aviation curriculums. Lots of famous people were around there too, Ray Lahr (designer of the CR-3 whiz wheel), Clay Lacy (famous pilot now retired from UAL, Learjet/FBO operator, and speed records and his College in the Air flying a UA DC8 with Mt.SAC students over the N and S Poles). Is Bob Thomas still around...? (Captain and Training Mgr. with FedEx, ex Flying Tigers) - Well, you are in good hands. The who's who of Califonia aviation is there.
xxx
Unfortunately I am far (in the Deep South, Buenos Aires, ARG), I am an ex PanAm, still flying 747-200s and soon to retire on a Brazil beach as D.O.M. (dirty old man), but if my buddy 411A cannot suggest answers to your questions, you can always hit on me, I still remember FAA rules are. Where do you fly from...? Riverside, Chino...?
xxx
All the best to you -

Happy contrails

FutureController

I posted this thread, but it comes up under someone else and asking a different question. I believe I posted it here - In the appropriate forum, so it should not have been moved.

No - you posted it in the correct forum, wrong thread. Your question was about a/c lights. We decide if it should be moved, not you.

Again...What are the rules/customs in the US regarding landing lights on/off? I live under a major route from KLAX and noticed it varies by about 75 miles as to when they switch the lamps off. Is the co-pilot simply making his way through a checklist? Explain...

If you read the responses thoroughly and sit for a moment to think about it, the answer could be obvious and don't forget, it is the Captain's decision when to put the lights on or off - or just leave them on if he/she wishes.

Scott

PS-Wow...It comes up fine in the reply section. Very strange.

Take time to get used to your new toy?

FutureController

So, when you're throttling-up from 250 Knots you begin the process of turning the lamps off? This doesn't sound right. The 18,000 foot mark does though...That's about where they are at this point and they're up around 400 Knots. Nearly all of the aircraft are within a few minutes of eachother doing this on this route.

Ahh...I hear one passing over me now. Must be a DC-9-XX if I can hear him!

tyne

Hi I live on the approach to Newcastle Airport UK (EGNT) in Tynemouth on the coast.

Aircraft coming to land at RW25 come over the coast at arond 1700 feet preparing for the left turn inland and down onto the runway.

At night I notice most have their landing lights on some way out. You can see them coming from the South for some time. Other aircraft display nothing more than the regulation nav lights and strobes.

Someone once told me landing lights had to be used beliw 10,000 feet.

Has this rule changed? Is it just personal preference? I had thought it might be because of cloud - the landing lights making anoying reflections and things like that. But over the recent clear spell we've had, I've seen several decent sized aircraft 737/320 size coming in minus all but the minimul illumination.

Can anyone explain please?

Thanks


Dan