Smoking on the flight-deck
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
From: OAK
Smokin' in the boys room....
Heaven forbid there should be a "smoking related incident" while a "Law Suit Happy U.S. Passenger" be onboard. Nothing will save you if it's an attorney on holiday, as well. 
<Long time lurker, first time poster.... Please be gentle with me....
<Long time lurker, first time poster.... Please be gentle with me....
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,320
Likes: 9
From: Switzerland, Singapore
I read this thread with a mixture of disgust and horror. I always thought of Ryanair of a very good and "modern" company. What I read now is absolutely not understandable. I will never fly with this company. Smoking commanders are the smallest issue here. I am surprised that there has never been an accident/incident yet. What worries me most is that even when management is implying rules they are neighter followed nor checked... 
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
From: planet earth
smoke
you sad lot specially you fms,go and report the smoker and stop feeling sorry for yourself.
in my company f/o report captains for reading a newspaper on the f/d or even increasing his cruise speed.
cabin crew report capt's and f/o for being too laid back or even smoking 100 meters away from the a/craft.
unfortunately the job has lost its appeal because of people like you trying to be .................?
best of luck
(a non smoker myself )
in my company f/o report captains for reading a newspaper on the f/d or even increasing his cruise speed.
cabin crew report capt's and f/o for being too laid back or even smoking 100 meters away from the a/craft.
unfortunately the job has lost its appeal because of people like you trying to be .................?
best of luck
(a non smoker myself )
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 655
Likes: 0
From: SV Marie Celeste
Possible answers to 'Do you mind if I smoke'
It is not so much wether I mind but I beleive it is illegal. You are the captain though so do as you please.
I find the question a bit confusing in the light of the recent Flight crew notice.
I beleive in SOP's and in doing things by the book so I rather you didn't.
this mght not work with some people, but then you must know which fights to win and which is better to let go. I beleive that everybody knows the dinosaurs and they always get their tea and bisquits in the end. You cannot combat bad CRM with more bad CRM.
I am pleased to say that the issue would not arise in my airline, thank god.
It is not so much wether I mind but I beleive it is illegal. You are the captain though so do as you please.
I find the question a bit confusing in the light of the recent Flight crew notice.
I beleive in SOP's and in doing things by the book so I rather you didn't.
this mght not work with some people, but then you must know which fights to win and which is better to let go. I beleive that everybody knows the dinosaurs and they always get their tea and bisquits in the end. You cannot combat bad CRM with more bad CRM.
I am pleased to say that the issue would not arise in my airline, thank god.
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 8,571
Likes: 3
From: Arizona USA
Argue and you lose....
Some years ago while working for a south asian airline, reported at dispatch to find the co-pilot madly puffing away on no less than two, and announcing his intentions to one and all that the recent directive to flight crew to not smoke on the flight deck, period, was nonsense. Smoking was still allowed in the cabin.
The dispatcher called the DFO and said co-pilot announced his opinions directly, IE: ..."it is my right to smoke".
The co-pilot was no more...replaced for the flight and employment terminated, forthwith.
The dispatcher called the DFO and said co-pilot announced his opinions directly, IE: ..."it is my right to smoke".
The co-pilot was no more...replaced for the flight and employment terminated, forthwith.
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 665
Likes: 0
411A, I wish I’d kept score of the number of your tales related to your captive audience here on Pprune that ended in “…and the FO in question was terminated.”
No guesses required as to who you’d be voting for on Oct 7th if you lived a tad west of where you say you live.
I’m of the rabidly anti-smoking persuasion, to the point where I avoid eating with cabin crew on overnights because I can’t handle the number who insist on lighting up, some even during the meal. As for appropriate replies to the dreaded question: “Do you mind if I smoke?”, my usual answer was “My dear, you can burst into flame as far as I’m concerned – but not here.”
Back in the days when smoking was still allowed on the flight deck in my current company, I had an almost surreal in cruise conversation with the airline’s CRM co-ordinator, who asked me, whilst puffing on a coffin nail, what I thought of the CRM programme. I said that I thought one of biggest failures in CRM I’d ever seen was the way smokers lit up in the cockpit when they knew their FOs found it distasteful.
His reply was classic “But I always make a point of keeping the cigarette as far away from the FO as possible.” And he actually did – ciggie in left hand, held almost up against the side window whenever it wasn’t in his mouth – and he actually believed this was saving me from breathing in his smoke.
Having a non smoking section in an aircraft cabin or restaurant is like having a non pissing end in a bathtub.
Edited for font size - and Staffer, I was expecting a reply along the lines of yours (below), but call me totally unsocial, but I find it difficult to enjoy my food while the young woman (the offender is almost always a female) is puffing away on a *** cigarette while i'm eating.
No guesses required as to who you’d be voting for on Oct 7th if you lived a tad west of where you say you live.
I’m of the rabidly anti-smoking persuasion, to the point where I avoid eating with cabin crew on overnights because I can’t handle the number who insist on lighting up, some even during the meal. As for appropriate replies to the dreaded question: “Do you mind if I smoke?”, my usual answer was “My dear, you can burst into flame as far as I’m concerned – but not here.”
Back in the days when smoking was still allowed on the flight deck in my current company, I had an almost surreal in cruise conversation with the airline’s CRM co-ordinator, who asked me, whilst puffing on a coffin nail, what I thought of the CRM programme. I said that I thought one of biggest failures in CRM I’d ever seen was the way smokers lit up in the cockpit when they knew their FOs found it distasteful.
His reply was classic “But I always make a point of keeping the cigarette as far away from the FO as possible.” And he actually did – ciggie in left hand, held almost up against the side window whenever it wasn’t in his mouth – and he actually believed this was saving me from breathing in his smoke.
Having a non smoking section in an aircraft cabin or restaurant is like having a non pissing end in a bathtub.
Edited for font size - and Staffer, I was expecting a reply along the lines of yours (below), but call me totally unsocial, but I find it difficult to enjoy my food while the young woman (the offender is almost always a female) is puffing away on a *** cigarette while i'm eating.
Last edited by Andu; 23rd September 2003 at 17:12.
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 103
Likes: 0
From: Australia
A filthy dirty habit that infringes on the rights of others that has no place in a modern workplace environment. If you had seen the outflow valves that were removed from DC-9 type aircraft when smoking was common place you would be shocked. Companies should enforce no smoking in airplanes rigidly or face litigation down the track as the community becomes more litigious.
I have worked for companies where crew were given the option, respect the non smoking rule or resign. All except the odd despot stopped smoking in aircraft.
I have worked for companies where crew were given the option, respect the non smoking rule or resign. All except the odd despot stopped smoking in aircraft.
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
From: Aberdeen
Speaking as a non pilot but with awareness of Human Resource affairs, if a first officer or anyone else reports a Captain for smoking on the flight deck is consequently sacked then there is a strong case for unfair dismissal.
In any case, if the issue is reported to HR then they have to right to remain anonymous, therefore 'management' won't be able to dismiss them
In any case, if the issue is reported to HR then they have to right to remain anonymous, therefore 'management' won't be able to dismiss them
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 8,571
Likes: 3
From: Arizona USA
'Gotta remember GlueBall...
Most of these guys are from Europe (and the UK, where they have just recently discovered Hoovers) and the anti-smoking brigade that had caught on so successfully on the western side of the great devide, is only just (more or less) established in the old country.
Most of these guys are from Europe (and the UK, where they have just recently discovered Hoovers) and the anti-smoking brigade that had caught on so successfully on the western side of the great devide, is only just (more or less) established in the old country.
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 561
Likes: 0
From: Outlawed
411A
Would have been a good line if we hadn't actually invented vacuum cleaners.
Unless you meant the all-American J.Edgar?
Most of these guys are from Europe (and the UK, where they have just recently discovered Hoovers)
Unless you meant the all-American J.Edgar?
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
From: Cheshire, England
naïve?!?
quote:
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......is consequently sacked then there is a strong case for unfair dismissal.
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Such touching naïvete.
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Are you people seriously saying that you risk loosing your job for complaining that a colleague is breaching regulations?
I find this very worrying. Like sombody has already pointed out, the flightdeck smoking (and seemingly powerless FOs) seems like a symptom of a more serious problem.
Also, I'm not particularly anti-smoking but why can't some smokers see how anti-social this is in such a confined environment?
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......is consequently sacked then there is a strong case for unfair dismissal.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Such touching naïvete.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Are you people seriously saying that you risk loosing your job for complaining that a colleague is breaching regulations?
I find this very worrying. Like sombody has already pointed out, the flightdeck smoking (and seemingly powerless FOs) seems like a symptom of a more serious problem.
Also, I'm not particularly anti-smoking but why can't some smokers see how anti-social this is in such a confined environment?
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
From: Aberdeen
"ill never regret having a smoke at 28000ft in my metro with a night sunset ...nobody to bother just DHL boxes..."
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You will regret it if some of the hot ash you guys carelessly flick away ends up behind you. Boxes are a lot more flammible than people!!!
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You will regret it if some of the hot ash you guys carelessly flick away ends up behind you. Boxes are a lot more flammible than people!!!
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 118
Likes: 0
From: worldwide
smoking in flightdeck
Dear Flyboyben,
I appreciate your point of view but just as an info, we actually do no sit on the freight,its further back,far enough for no ash to fly there still red hot ,get under the net,find a highly flammable piece of mail...AND the all our metros were fitted with ashtrays...nice little silver ones below the pilots side windscreen...very convenient for long lonely night flights...
Tailwinds,
Flyer75
Oups I forgot to mention...when taking off at 6 in the morning, nothing better than your fav cd tune in one hear to enjoy with scenary of empty and clear skies while commuters get slowly but surely stuck into the first traffic jam of the day....
When safely in cruise add the second one and work disappears into a feeling of pure happiness...until the descent towards a crowded earth...
Flyer75
I appreciate your point of view but just as an info, we actually do no sit on the freight,its further back,far enough for no ash to fly there still red hot ,get under the net,find a highly flammable piece of mail...AND the all our metros were fitted with ashtrays...nice little silver ones below the pilots side windscreen...very convenient for long lonely night flights...
Tailwinds,
Flyer75
Oups I forgot to mention...when taking off at 6 in the morning, nothing better than your fav cd tune in one hear to enjoy with scenary of empty and clear skies while commuters get slowly but surely stuck into the first traffic jam of the day....
When safely in cruise add the second one and work disappears into a feeling of pure happiness...until the descent towards a crowded earth...
Flyer75