Singapore Airlines DEFO
 

Are they taking in expats?? DEC or DEFO?

Previously, around 1991/2, when SIA recruited ex-pat FOs, they were told they would not be considered for command. May be different now if they are only recruiting on Local terms and conditions, not ex-pat. Ts & Cs

Just for clarity, only FO not Direct Captains (that'd really be something).

After the way they treated Expats in the past why would anyone join?

People with 20+ years of service treated like disposable temporary workers.

Eric - In SIA no one was ever given to believe that they had any more future than the expiry date on their contract. Full nationalisation of the airline was always on the cards, future aircraft orders were well advertised and cadets in the pipeline were also a known quantity. The fact is, or was, that we were exactly as you described, disposable temporary workers.

Expats in any industry in Singapore are used to manage supply and demand for workers. Need more widget makers due to an increase in orders, hire some expats if not enough locals applying. Not enough work anymore, lay off the expats as they are dearer.

Anyone wanting a long term career at SIA would have been well advised to join on local terms which would have given better job security in return for a lesser package. A 55 year old ex BA Captain with a pension could afford the risk of an expat contract as he'd probably only be looking at one renewal and it wouldn't be the end of the world if he didn't get it.

"After the way they treated Expats in the past why would anyone join?

People with 20+ years of service treated like disposable temporary workers."

Who cares if they'd been there for 20 years? If you want the expat contract you know you're out when you're not needed (been there done that). My friends who went for the local contract are still there. If you don't understand the basics of your employment contract you have a problem, don't blame the airline.

Can anyone Please provide what the salary/employment package is as an Expat & as a local ?!?
Pro's & Con's of the airline and what kind of rosters they run ?
Cheers

Hi there all colleagues. I am also interested at F/O position at Singapore Airlines with 2500 hours flight experience at B737 NG. Already i am flying for a big airline but schedule and salary is real problem nowadays. I would like to have widebody experience and live in a more developed country to enhance my life vision and professionalism. Shortly, would like to hear from someone flying for Singapore about the conditions such as roster, crew relations and salary. Wish you all best.

Dont quite comprehend your concerns. You work in a big company and at the same time you want to live in a more developed country? Doesnt a big company comes from a developed country already, so to speak? Guess you need to ask why you wanna join Singapore airlines..?

No, there are big companies from many parts of the world, like Brazil, Colombia, Panama, South Africa, India, Kenya, Russia, Vietnam, Turkey and so it goes... none of these countries are considered developed but have big airlines.

I am just looking for better schedling and better payment. And better environment to live for some years. Thats why i am asking about singapore conditions. Already another friend answered the question about big airline and developed country . ıf you have experience with singapore, would appreciate the info.

Correct me if Im wrong but even the LoCo's (Jetstar, Scoot) pay more than this?

It will be about between 10-11k SGD for an FO.

A single person can live quite nicely on that and even save some money up. Married with children it will be a struggle as you won't have the expat benefits, such as housing and school fees but won't have citizen benefits such as purchasing government provided housing, low local school fees and subsidised hospitals either.

Time to command an issue as currently top heavy and merging with Silkair however currently losing pilots to China so conditions and/or upgrade time may improve.

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapo...lobal-shortage

A good opportunity to join a leading airline if young and single. Apply for permanent residence after a couple of years which gives numerous benefits and is the gateway to citizenship and a grade A passport which could be of interest if currently holding a less desirable travel document.

Middle Eastern airlines have much better expat packages but don't offer a good living environment. This offer does look like a better option than joining Cathay though. Only you can decide what best suits your own circumstances.

Funny how the tables have turned....Scoot FOs are now paid the same, if not more than their SQ counterparts and enjoying a decent lifestyle to boot.

well he did say 10-11k..but is that Gross or net pay? he didnt clarify...

Tax on this amount is negligible in SIN. Circa S$800 but I stand to be corrected.

Choce of fleets too in TZ/TR. Exciting times.

That amount is before tax and cpf and for scoot 320 working 80 hrs a mth.

I'm guessing Airbus will go onto a330, can anyone give an idea of routes, schedule, average trip length or roster, or any other contract info
thanks

Before CPF?!
isn't CPF like 43%?

well he did say 10-11k..but is that Gross or net pay? he didnt clarify...

Employee contribution if you're under 55 is 20% capped at $1200/month

The pay for all flying jobs in Singapore is very subpar. Even more so considering the high cost of living. That cost is even greater for non-Singaporeans as you don't have access to the subsidised housing that locals get. If you have kids, schooling is also very expensive.

No CPF unless you are PR or Citizen.

Must have changed then. In the nineties expats had CPF, the company provident fund had closed. (Still got my CPF umbrella somewhere, presented with final payout!).

As hogger says then reducing from 55, plus under some circumstances the ability to withdraw it.
CPF 20% up to age 55, 13% 55 to 60, 7.5% 60 to 65, 5% above 65

parabellum

Like you I was a DEC from GF but only did 5 years from being checked on the line as age 60 was the end of the road. Back then SQ was a good job, regular yearly bonus, 13 month salary , special accommodation allowance paying 80% of the rent with tax benefits to boot. Those days are well and truly over now.

thegypsy - Yes, I don't think I have ever alluded otherwise. The CPF was payable by and paid to local and expat alike, so it would not be unreasonable to expect it to be paid now to anyone on a Local contract.

It's only paid to Singaporeans and PRs. Expats now is on a local contract but do not get CPF!

Thanks etops777, that doesn't sound so good. I knew when they scrapped the expat contract they stripped out as much as they could to bring it in line with a local contract, didn't realise they had gone below the line, as it were, and taken CPF out as well, that strikes me as a 'low blow'.

I don't remember getting CPF but perhaps memory has gone confused:

-no paying CPF is a national policy. Only PRs and citizens get CPF
-the DEFO gig is only for pilots with an ATPL and 1500hrs or more
-only on local terms 6500sgd basic and 60sgd per hour flt pay with no guaranteed
-also payable is a meal allowance .
-average take home is around 11500-12000pm SGD
-5yrs minimum time to command-depends on slots no guarantees again
-random computer generated roster. no commuting roster or lifestyle roster. only guarantee is 8 days off (2days every week)
rentals start at 800sgd for a room to 5000sgd for a 3 bedroom apartment
cheap 2nd hand 5 years Japanese car starts for 40000sgd
pint of beer ranges from 12sgd to 25 sgd depending on location and establishment
-the plus... you get to fly a shiny almost new widebody
good luck applying and but you have been forewarned

Like thegypsy, I was there back in the nineties and I certainly didn't get CPF. The Provident Fund was terminated when SAR"s occurred. It was frozen but did pay out when I left at age 60.

When I joined we had the choice to join the company fund or CPF, I chose the company fund. The company fund was closed and our contributions withheld but still growing (a bit!) until we left. When the fund closed to further contributions we were directed to the CPF. I drew mine in 2001 and still have the umbrella that was presented with the final cheque, after all outstanding income tax had been deducted! Clearly we were on different Ts and Cs where provident fund was concerned.

The time to command far exceed the minimum 5 years. For someone that join today it will be around 13-15 years to command much like CX.

The hourly flight pay is on a tier basis. When one flies more than 70 hours per month the hourly pay goes up.

Apartment rental depends on the type one choose to rent. From a single room to 2-4 bedrooms HDB or Condo.


I would say if one has a good job in your home country I would not suggest the move.

No more 5yrs yes..but where is this 13-15 yrs for DEFO? Its not written on stones yet. The 13-15 yrs are meant for those who start from day one cadets. There is a queue but nothing is firmed on how many years yet. Maybe shorter...