Contract agency rants and Kudos, Vietman, Korean, Asiana, Rishworth
 

I started this thread to reopen discussion about the different contract agencies operating in Asia. Vietnam, Korean Air, and Asiana. I believe they have the most expats, and have for a long time. Choosing the right agency is extremely important. When you are 12K km from home, and your paycheck doesn't show up, and your agency is also 12k km from home, things can get pretty painful.

Good or bad. Let er rip. I have had both experiences.

I worked for Vietnam Airlines with Rishworth as the contract agent. It turned out to be a nightmare agency-wise, and I left a contract job I liked early as a result. I had many associates there, from Rishworth, Parc, and DPI. I don't know much about DPI as there were new there. I did watch Parc guys have issues with VAC, and the issue was usually fixed within 24 hours. The same exact issues, at the same exact time with Rishworth, and the phone calls and email's went unanswered.

VAC was trying to impose paycuts on all pilots the whole time I was there. Parc fought. Because they fought, VAC stopped recruiting from them for a long time. It cost Parc money, but they stood up for their pilots, and all pilots at VAC from all agencies benefited from that.

The government of Vietnam tried to impose very harsh visa restrictions on all expats, not just pilots. Families members would have to leave the country and re-enter the country every 30 days. Parc alone fought this and I, as an Rishworth pilot, was CC'ed by Parc the whole time - thanks Parc.

In the end the visa situation ended up being better that it was in the beginning.

After it was over, we all got an email from Rishworth saying, "we heard there is an issue with visas for pilots and their families, and Vietnam Airlines said they are going to work on it."

In the end, Rishworth decided to breach all contracts and reduce all of our pay, without our consent. Their contracts are so hideous that after reading it I realized the only two courses of action were to accept it, or quit. So i quit.

I now work for Parc on a contract in China, and am extremely happy with my contract service. :ok::ok::ok:

Agents
 

As stated earlier the Nickname for Rishworth is Rishworse, we have had several occassions where the Rishworth Pilots where left allone when it was time to stand up for them whilst other Agents confronted Administration at least with the issue.

The "Wine and dine" once a year does not help the Pilots, as the issues are gently adressed and then forgotten at the next morning. I even forgott the name of the desease, it is a good one, I meet new people every day.

DPI is fairly small but a long time in the business as well and my paycheck came on time when I worked thru them back in 1998 until 1999. The contacts are still there and when I was in touch with them on the phone recently some of the people still work there for over 15 years now. That also shows me some stabilty.

FCI is a Agency that is "founded" from the leftover of BIUSA, Best International USA, Texas. Be carefull is the least I would say or better stay away if you can.

EPA had a few legal issues with some Australien Skippers and had to pay some significant amount of compensation to them after a Court ruled finaly.

PARC had a ownership change, the new style of managment will be judged by the old one. My 2000 Contract with PARC was splendid, I hope it stay´s that way for the sake of all involved.

CCL is good and the response comes within hours despite time diffrence. The insurance package is outstanding and the on time pay the standart. The founder is a retired Pilot and knows the Business in and out.

GAP was coming into the picture about 6 years back in time and does the job quietly and tries to get the share of the cake. No issues on support and one of the best contacts into KAL with good representation.

So far as a quick feedback and I look forward to read more expirience contribution here.

Fly safe and land happy

NG

I have heard good things about CCL. About a year ago I looked into KAL, all the way back to 1998 on KAL threads. Didn't see a bad word about them. That is an automatic thumbs up if nobody was torqued off enough to rant on PPRUNE.
DPI I still haven't heard much about, good or bad. That generally means GOOD.

Never heard the term Rishworse, but I like it. At VAC we called them Rishworthless. And that was on a good day. I would get kicked off the forum for the language we normally used.

So far 3 good agencies. Any more?

When I first got to China there were many problems with getting registered with the Chinese government. We were staying in a dump of a hotel by the PEK airport. The local WASINC rep was there a lot. She was extremely knowledgeable about Chinese stuff as it pertains to pilots. Later the owner of Wasinc also took the time to email about a couple of other things, even though I was not a Wasinc pilot.
I did hear some rants about Wasinc, and I cannot refute them. They were helpful to me, without benefit to them. They took time out of their own day to help a foreigner, no associated with their business.
For me, I have to give Wasinc :ok::ok::ok:

And thank you.

Parc or Rish
 

I have first hand knowledge how it is to be with Parc after 3 contracts. 2 in Spain and 1 in Vietnam. With Rishworth only second hand info.

First let's not forget that they are your employer and you are the employee.

Having said that I can without hesitation say that they are one of they best employers I've worked for.
Never any problems with pay, always on time and correct. Most months paid around the 23rd since your contract says the money should be on your account latest the last day of the month. Due to having an argument with the tax authorities in my home country I needed an advance when moving to Nam. No problem!
I know that the health insurance, at least two years ago, was much better with BUPA gold than what was given by Rish. Me and my best buddy compared item for item. If you also take into consideration covering your family, in my case wife and two kids, Parc/BUPA was substantially better and much cheaper.
Go to the right hospital and you never touch a dollar. Everything is taken care of by BUPA through direct billing and never any need to pay anything in advance.

And most important, when the **** hits the fan you can count on that Parc will treat you right and according to your contract.
In my case I got in to trouble when I was reported by a f/o who thought that we were below legal when landing with final reserve + 5 minutes.
To cut a long story short this ended with the big duck terminating my contract with immediate effect. That also meant that from that day VAC didn't pay one dollar more for me to Parc.
Parc however listened to arguments from both sides and
tried to reinstate my services to VAC and when that didn't work they paid for my notice time, although if they would've elected to follow the contract to the letter, they had no obligation to do so.

I won't say much more about Rish since all info I have is second hand, although I have no doubt that the stories I've been told by my friends are true.
I can also confirm that the Rish rep in SGN/VAC is a top notch guy who really takes care of the newcomers and helps them to settle in and is always there with a helping hand or piece of advice. Doesn't matter if it's private or work related or if you're from Parc or Rish.

That's my private two cents!

Direct Personnel and Titan Aero
 

Have had miserable experiences with Direct Personnel (Ireland but Contracts are based in Guernsey) and Titan Aero (websites falsely claim they have offices all over the world - not true - its Loyed Sacrias on a blackberry in Dubai)


:mad:

I have "experienced" Rishworth. That immoral scum of a company tried to withhold my final month's salary after I resigned. I gave all correct notice: dotted every i and crossed every t. I raised many, many concerns while at Air India over the blatant breaches of contract. Their response? Lies upon lies upon lies, which in the end became exposed through overwhelming evidence. In the end they then refused to answer any phone calls or reply to any emails. A lawyer was needed and money finally appeared. (I was lucky. Others experiencing the same have not been so fortunate due the time consuming legal system, distance between the States and NZ, etc, etc.... RAL know this and bank on it.)

So, they are either disgracefully incompetent or disgracefully immoral. They have teams of lawyers and know exactly what they are doing. Absolute scum. So, why doesn't the kiwi media jump all over this?? Unfair and illegal breaches of workplace agreements and contracts occur everyday: all either sponsored by, created by or supported by RAL.

Go back on this forum and do a brief review of pilot's experiences with RAL and see what conclusion the overwhelming evidence leads to. I have zero sympathy for those with RAL. Do your due diligence. You asked for it, you received it.

But, pilots being pilots, they will sell their soul for a contract with such a disgusting company rather than sit tight for a slot with an agency with a decent reputation. Short term gain for long term suffering.

I've had experience with Parc as well. All I can say publicly, and to them: THANK YOU. If you consider yourself a professional airman then surround yourselves with professional colleagues.

Good!
 

I like your posts TT: clear, unbiased, no empty bs or blablabla.:ok:

I had a contract with Rishworth and would not recommend them to anyone.

There were issues with what was 'promised' before signing and what was honored.
There were meetings with Rishworths agent (JP) and he agreed to talk to the airline. Not one issue was addressed. IMHO they did not even talk to the airline for risk of losing any further recruitment through them.
My personal opinion of Rishworth was once you signed the contract and started, you are on your own should any issues arise.

Personally I do not agree with any recruiting agency as my experience with Rishworth was it was a tool for corruption, the DFO and CP bragged about the their 'Rishworth Villas' they were building in Spain.

The difference between what the airline was paying Rishworth and what we were being paid was significant. Rishworth made well over 7 figures with the numbers they sent to this airline. For doing what I ask!
After one year with Rishworth all were employed (UNDER CONTRACT) direct with the airline and could be dismissed with three months notice. So what was the point of employing through the contract agent. Answer is above.

Avoid contract agencies, the more reputable airlines employ you directly, not through an agency.

My 2 cents worth.

Agree complete with Superced. Parc in the toilet now the same some of the pilots who come from Taiwan.

Message to those chinese pilot from Taiwan. You are expat pilots in VNA now. You are not Vietnam people and will never be. When you make report about other expat pilot you only look foolish. In you old airline in Taiwan you make report about expat pilot because that you culture. When you come to vn air you only **** on your expat brother when you do that.

Remember one thing, when your contract finish and you want change airline, that expat brother you report might be the one who can help or stop you next contract.

J.R. from CCL was recently in Seoul for "discussions" with KAL.

Throughout his visit, a few of us had an opportunity to ask him a few questions with respect to possible improvements in the contract. The guy basically laughed at all of us with almost every question... yes laughed. He really didn't give a ****. My, and others opinion's of this company changed completely. By the end of his visit many of us were pissed. This guy is an ar.se as far as I'm concerned.

I have recommended CCL in the past, but no more.


Jinglie'd

"Parc the new style of managment will be judged by the old one"


That's the problem...

I agree :ok:

GAP
 

I've been working with GAP on interviewing with Korean. I still don't have the word yet from KAL but expect to get hired. However, in my numerous emails and calls to M.P. at GAP, she has been forthright and completely open and honest with me on everything, including things that might not be to her advantage. I've been very impressed with the credibility and availability. My friends who hired into KAL through GAP a couple years ago have been completely happy with them.

Has the pay scale changed through GAP? It has not changed in a long time and now seems a bit low. CCL did at one point post the pay scale but that has been removed, what is the latest?

Fatbus,
You're right, nothing has changed, and nothing will. Currency depreciation is not within their considerations. JR seems to think that all KAL drivers (joined prior Mar 2010) should kiss the feet of management for the BIG 1.6% pay rise.
Unfortunately, they are still swamped with too many applicants who are willing to settle for less.

Pre-ownershp change, I was a snooty SOB because I was w PARC and my mates were w Rishworth. This was in no small measure because our client services manager was Senan Haugh, a credible, competent and outstanding guy. :D

Post buy-out, I am simply an SOB :} With the new PARC, disappointed is a gross understatement. Senan was assigned to China, and the people who replaced him do not seem to deserve their pay grade. :=

Example: Requested PARC a clarification re an ambiguous contract stipulation that the airline was interpreting VERY loosely to their advantage. The current PARC rep emailed the airline re my query, and then simply advised me that the airline is soon to come up w an official interpretation of subject provision. :ugh:

Classic petitio principii, much like the following:

The Bible affirms that it is inerrant. Whatever the Bible says is true. Therefore: The Bible is inerrant.

Happy Easter everyone :cool:

I worked for IASCO for 8 years but they are only in Japan as far as I know. It was more a company than the present rash of agents. The best agent for me is GAP. I was with them for 5 years and they were always responsive and understanding. One fact that one must remember with Korean Air is that the company can change any item in the 'contract' and (all)the agents can't do a damned thing about it.

Don't expect too much, collect your salary, and you will not be disappointed.

Rishworth are the same. All they do is forward on information from the company when I have a problem. They have never gone into bat when the company change or interpret the contract their way. I have had a few occassions where the company has not honored my contract. Rishworth don't do anything other than tell me the company are being helpful by trying to work something out. The company dishonor my contract, and then try to come up with a remedy (not as good as my entitlement), and Rishworth try to make me beleive the company are helping is just BS! If I don't honor my terms and conditions, there's hell to pay!

The contact companies are a complete joke. They take money and do absolutely nothing, other than redirect my salary from their account to mine, and send a few emails.

I fail to see why they are there in the first place. :ugh:

I believe I know the reason for crewing companies to exist and certain airlines to use them.

Any airline could employ you on a contract directly with the option to lay you off on one month notice (as was rishworths contract) or three months notice.

I applied to the airline the same time I applied to rishworth. I was employed by rishworth for one year then employed by the airline directly. The rishworth step was completely unnecessary, (except to line the pockets of others).

Any info on who is handling the China Eastern contract for Oz basings?

Very interesting thread
 

A very interesting thread, especially to someone contemplating dipping his toe into the unfamiliar waters of contract work abroad. Keep the posts coming.:D

New-Kal Agent
 

There is a new Kid on the block: ::: Welcome to Total Aviation Service - TAS :::

The grapevine says that the Chairmans Daughter is behind the Agency. I haven´t heared more from them until now but we keep tracking on it. Mybe I need a LAX-flight to come closer and see with my own eyes what and who is behind.

Same with FCI, checked them out and found then unsuitable for further useage, mainly the leftover from BIUSA and they screwed alot of Pillots in early 2002/2003. The consequence was that KAL cut all business with them and ended the contracts of the Pilots then.

Fly safe and land happy

NG

all these agencies are basically the same. They're your best friend and go to bat for you to get you hired. once on the job they are okay. all they do is transfer money they have received from the airline to your designated account and give you an annual report of money earned. It's when there is an issue with the airline that they go into "hiding" behind the contract that is stacked against you. When push comes to shove, you will loose. The agency will not risk their long term contract of providing pilots to the airline over one guy/gal. Besides, if you get canned or quit, there are many more knocking on the agent's door.

GAP was fine until I had an issue. Then all I got was a three sentence email that translated into a shoulder shrug. thanks for nothing.

I have had a pretty good experience with Parc so far in China. There have been a few issues with the airline, and Parc has resolved them for the most part. Much better than I would have expected in China, and it is a new contract for Parc so I am sure they are feeling it out as well.

The best thing is I sleep better the night before payday, knowing that Parc isn't trying to figure out keep more of my contract fee for themselves, which seems to be par for the course when I worked for the boys and girls from Auckland (Rishworth).

LOL, my captain's pay was $8,500.00 USD (6/2) in 2004 at Rishworth, now on $14,000.00 (10/1), I think I'm very happy with Rishworth and their support, I wasn't willing to throw away the job like some people because the airline wanted to take 2% of my salary back for a six month period.

Cheers D. L. :ok:

f/o
 

please adivse me i am deal with rishworth now to work with asiana air i have interview next 2 week so please advise me by email [email protected]

A new Rishworthless story, to go along with the rest............

On my current contract with Parc, we are currently reimbursed for air tickets, up to a maximum of 5000 USD each six months. But we must submit receipts and copies of the tickets. I am not sure how or why, but we were just informed last week that we will now simply be paid an additional 5000 USD for travel, at the end of each 6 months. I am not sure if it was negotiated, or the airline got tired of the extra administrative hassles, but it is a good deal for us.

We told the Rishworth pilots this, and they have requested verification with brand R down in Auckland. Thus far, no response. Why? Probably Rishworth is going to still require (or is thinking about it) their pilots to submit travel claims to them, and if they don't spend the whole 5000, Rishworth will pocket the difference.

It might be legal, depending on how their contract is written. Their contract is with Rishworth, and any change between Rishworth and the airline doesn't necessitate a change with the contract with the pilot.

Well done Rishworth. Again.

They never change.

D.L.

Being the paid, local plot rep for Rishworth at Vietnam, Airlines, I do not question the amount they pay you, as I know you are paid an additional amount over the normal contract fee at Vietnam Airlines. Your service to the pilots at VAC, from ALL agencies, was very welcomed and appreciated, not the least of which by me. Thank you.

You were not the problem. Just the opposite. The problem lies with the fact that our contract fee is paid FIRST to the criminals in Auckland, and then they pay you. Hopefully. Most of my dealings with the Auckland staff, which were not many, were dishonest from their side, and THEY FINANCIALLY BENEFITED from that dishonesty.

The best example of this, which affected a large number of the pilots (this is besides the pay cut) is the advertised 6/2, 5/3, and 4/4 rotations. Everybody starts at 6/2, and then you have to request, thru your agency, a shorter rotation. A large number of us (most of the pilots I personallly knew) requested this with Rishworth or Parc. The Parc pilots had the requested submitted, and granted (when I was there) Rishworth would not submit the request, and lied to me, saying they did, for over 2 months. Only when i contracted VAC's contract office in Hanoi, could I verify that Rishworth had not, in fact, ever submitted the request. When challenged with this information, Rishworth finally made the request, and it was granted. I was one of the very few Rishworth pilots at the time that was on a 5/3 rotation, as most of the Rishworth pilots gave up trying to get a shorter rotation.

Why? You get paid less for a shorter rotation, and Rishworth is paid a lower contract fee as a result. So if anyone wants to go to VAC and hopefully get a 5/3 rotation, you might want to seriously consider going with a different contract agency. Rishworth won't make the request, or wouldn't, when i was there, which was just over 1 year ago.

Sorry DL, your a good guy, but your chosen employers are scum. See my previous post for their latest.

Just to be clear USMC, my 10/1 pay is not counting anything else, it's just straight A320 pay that anyone with RAL or Parc will receive after the first year on 10/1.

Many people are opting for China contracts since the L/H seat pay on the A320 salary there is much higher than the $9,720 we pay here for the first year.

Cheers, D.L.

I have heard that VNA requires a 15K 3 year bond for all new hire CPTs on the A320. Is this true? If this is true it will stop new CPTs coming here period! Apart from being based in HAN which some people like but most do not.

Instead of actually paying market rates the VNA brain trust up in HAN came up with THIS?! It is almost too far fetched to believe. Can anybody confirm this?

Keep in mind this is NOT the 15K bond for CPT upgrades.

Rich and Worthless
 

RW....Scumbags...never again. How come everyone I know with those initials are bottom-feeders?

Parc...so far new management is trying to tote the line as the old management did. Hope it works well for them....good outfit.

DPI....used them once, no complaints.

Sigmar....Never again, let me repeat that....NEVER AGAIN!

FCI...a crook is a crook is a crook.

AeroPro.....Rachel, just how far can one strectch the Truth?

AeroPersonnel...I want to like them, really I do. But just can't seem to put it together yet.

VOR.....They were good to deal with, just the CAAC didn't like me. I'd use them again.

Contract Air.....Once was enough.

Things have evolved a bit since the latest scramble for crews began. We used to have a handful of somewhat to reputable sourcing agenceis out there. No every mom and pop is going to give a go. Along with it, the moral and ethics department was trashed. If you have a good agency, then you'd best hang with them. If you do try the waters, do be very careful. The SHARKS are running very shallow nowdays.:eek:

I heard about the VAC bond demand from a couple of pilots I know that are still at VAC. Rumor has it that they hit a new hire class with this the first day, and all but one walked. Airlines the world over try to get pilots for less, just like any business likes to cut its costs. The best choice is to vote with your feet.

One of my favorite sayings from a flying partner:

"If someone wasn't trying to screw me, this wouldn't be aviation."

Hire Pilots for less $$$. advertising for pilots and you pay for the training.
 

British Airways launches major recruitment drive - Leadership, business and management news, tips and features from MT and Management Today magazine

"British Airways is poised to launch its biggest recruitment drive in a decade. The airline is expanding pilot numbers by 800 and it’s using YouTube to entice pilots willing to meet the £100,000 training cost."

Hey dreamland. 2 things.

You have sacrificed your time off for more money. So you have a higher salary, but 1 week of every 10 weeks. Mate that is just sad. Nowhere else to go?

Secondly you earn 1000 a month extra as RAL s bitchboy in Vietnam, so anything you say is tainted my old chum.

Also I heard you went out to Skewers restaurant with a PARC TRE, your girlfriend and 1 new RAL Captain. All paid for by the RAL company credit card. Do RAL know that your entertaining PARC guys and your girlfriends at their expense?

You do make me laugh. Keep it coming.

jihad
 

we should start a jihad to wipe out all this not in parc believers for once and ever,

IN PARC WE TRUST! :ugh:

Flyinchina,
You have used a few in the past , how much do they take for their cut? All good info BTW, Thanks

ia1166, if anyone is is sad person, it's you mate, I can't even remember the last time you made a positive contribution here, you are only embarrassing yourself, many people are laughing at you behind your back.

No I do not have to get away from Vietnam like you do - since I actually enjoy being here, and for your information, I have a free hand to assist our pilots in anyway that I see fit, and yes in this case there was a highly regarded Australian TRE that assisted me with a new pilot briefing.

Cheers, D.L.

Kal contact
 

Can I kindly get any kal contract 37 or 77 captains to pm me.

Just a few questions...... And yes I've read the posts.

Cheers in advance

Wjp

newbie to contracting
 

Hi all,

I am looking at the possibility of contracting in Asia and have read all the posts and pretty much know which agency I'd prefer to work through.

I was wondering about the employment side of contracting - does the Pilot get employed by the Airline or by the Contracting Company AND how do the contracting companies make their money? Do they get a placement fee from the Airline or does the contracting company take a monthly slice of the pilot income?

When they talk about salaries, is this the money coming to the pilot or do the contracting company take a percentage of this??

Thanks