your request "RIGHT"
 

“Dam son” that’s really sad.


Now if Jet Airways can find 99 more sad B777 Captains without families, homes, and a life. Or say 50 that are willing to risk their family.
Is it true that the old terms at Jet Airways for the Expat B777 Captains and First Officers where a rotation of 11 days ON and 7 days off roster pattern? You were given 30days paid leave in 12 months.
Didn’t you also have your accommodation in your base full time even when you where in away on time off.
This allows you to setup some kind of life when at work.
“Was it not your request to select a longer rotations to spend longer times away from India on your off time?”:=

Initially in 2007 Jet offered 8 days on 7 off....this was a little unworkable and was changed a few times, I think it ended up 12/9........New Zealanders and myself did 6 weeks/2 weeks, as the commute was too long for the shorter rotations...remember a lot of those guys were based in London/Brussels/New York...and were able to be home in a few hours...with the new wet lease Istanbul based there will certainly be an opportunity for European Pilots to sneak home between trips....

I've been in the expat contract world for nearly 13 years....it's not perfect, but if you want a flying job it's what you do....for anyone coming from a major carrier in The Western World, IT IS VERY DIFFERENT.....remember we are all prostitutes here in "The Real World"...forget about having bid rights for trips,having a choice in your days off, accept the long time away from home, forget EVERYTHING from your previous airline, just shut-up, dress neatly, be early and be very, very polite..if you can do that you will most likely fit in to most Airlines that will employ you..if you don't like that, stay well away...:ooh:

Availability
 

Fortunately for Jet there are many cheaply available retirees, living on fat pensions, eager to give anything to get strapped on a flight deck again.
They don't care if they need to pay for their type rating, if it's 6 x 2, 20 x 1, or about family. They just want to make some extra cash. That's all.
At least 90% of the more recently contracted drivers are from this group.

Including a Captain, recently retired from THY due to age issues (63), now employed by Jet to fly for THY:)

Serious question:

- When employed under this contract, could you actually rent a place in Istanbul? Under what status? Employment contract? Working permit?
- Could your dependents legally live with you ?

(Not talking about money for once, but legal status)

gb777....as you will be working for Jet Airways you would not hold A Turkish Work Permit, you would normally enter and leave as crew on the G.D...however, your family can come and visit as required, a multiple entry 90 day tourist visa is I think USD $60..I believe there are limits as to how long you can stay in 12 months, an apartment is a possibility but they can be expensive.

Thanks zlin77

Article is from Feb, 2011.

At this time expats have visited the Butchers of Bangalore 3 or 4 times. Before going off to IAM BLR, one visits the local hospital... Thorough examination with EKG, Stress Test, Blood Test, Sonogram! X-ray for 7500 Rupees, about $138 USD. Where in the US can one get all that testing on the cheap? Company MD at your base signs off the report and off to Bangalore for the experience of a life time. Some have experienced horrors beyond the imagination the sane. Some have sailed straight through. Some Were TMUed and got themselves into shape at home, came back and issued their certificates. As long as the numbers from the bolls tests are within specific ranges, no issues. Any past surgeries or scars??? can range from a minor to a major issue.

At the end of the day, it beats the Chinese CAAC Medical hands down. Starting this summer, expats will be able to renew their medicals with private physicians.

Again, very old and melodramatic news. There are many posts on PPRUNe concerning this miscreant. There are good FAA AMEs throughout India. Check with expat pilots with Spice, Indo, Air India Express, and Jet.

:eek:Guess what..... There are crappy AMEs all over the world, yes, including the US:{

I've done expat contracts in many countries. It is common to submit to local Aero Medicals too. Some used the same procedures in India too.

It is an unpleasant arduous experience for first time expats. Almost a babe in the woods feeling. Just another hurdle.

@marvelman

captjns is spot on

This particular doctor was also a DGCA Class 2 examiner . He has been barred for life from operating as Medical examiner for the DGCA and from the news article above for the FAA as well

This topic was also discussed extensively on pprune

http://www.pprune.org/south-asia-far...new-delhi.html

Marvelman, perhaps many of my colleagues, also expats, would disagree with your assertion. All you've contributed are two media items two years after the fact relating to the Indian Medical. Enlighten me Marvelman. Kindly elaborate on subject matters to which I am in the dark about... without outdated news articles please.

We are willing to read about your experiences with the Indian Commercial Airline Sector. Do share with this forum your first hand experience from the assessment process, DGCA interview, Air Law exam, training and checking process, per-medical, and actual visit to IAM-BLR.

Share with us your actual experiences as an expat relating to the selection, training, and medical process.

At the end of the day, expats can share, compare, and laugh about one another's experience. But one expat gig an expat does not make.

Thanks OBP. I am setting the record straight about the Indian Medical Process only, and not about the B777 program.

As I am not familiar with the T & Cs, It would be improper for me to comment. I have learned to take the word of the recruiter at face value.

Many recruiters are nothing more than modern day "Shanghai Artists"... have the applicant sign on with carrier from hell, collect their commission, and off into oblivion no where to be found to resolve any issues. I was lucky to learn this fact of expatting some 20 years ago after my second overseas operation. Atbthe end of the day It's up to the candidate to perform their due diligence when researching any potential contracts abroad. Again, the recruiter's words need to be taken at face value.

Their was no intent on my behalf on offending others on this particular thread, as trolling or flaming serves no useful purpose.

Deja Vue...
 

Good gosh, this discussion brings back something close to Critical Incident Stress Syndrome. Having been through their 777 process back in 2010, wet leased out..then laid off and lied to, its all the same.

Anyone who'd be willing to put themselves through this needs to go and see the Indo-Doc for a head reading...seriously...Once the signature is on the page, the conditions will change. Believe it.

6 x 2 rotation
 

Only political pressure or the most stubborn stupidity could justify this punishing rotation.
There's no logic reason for that whatsoever.
Many airlines employing expats on long haul (THY and KAL come to mind) for quite some time are very happy re productivity etc on rotation 20 days on 10 days off.
A funny explanation is that the local pilots would be 'jealous' about the expats having too much 'priviledges', so they press the management to enforce this punishing rotation.
Tipically the expats spend much more time sitting at the hotel than involved on duty rest/flight activities. Complete nonsense.:ugh:

Dgca deadline??
 

The DGCA deadlines in India live up to their name. they die:rolleyes:

India holds back plans to eject foreign pilots | Business Standard

"The move will benefit Jet Airways (India) Ltd, which plans to hire about 70 foreign pilots for its Boeing 777s."

"Jet plans to recruit about 70 foreign pilots for its three Boeing 777-300ERs. The airline plans to wet-lease them to Turkish Airlines for a year and does not have enough commanders on its rolls to operate these. The aircraft are currently on lease to Thai Airways and will return this year."

"This is not the first time the government is extending its deadline. It had set July 2010 as a deadline to phase out expat pilots, but then revised it to July 2011 and then to 2013, giving a reprieve to domestic airlines."

The Jet Bania strikes again. Classic example of yoyoing by DGCA. Longer wait for Capt upgrades on 777 for Indian pilots at Jet. :suspect:

The reasons for this massive intake of pilots is manifold.Many of the Jet 777s will now be wetleased to Etihad and also possibly 330s too.This is part of the deal that is being worked out between the two carriers.In my earlier post I had criticised Jet's knee jerk hiring and firing policies.The reason for this is because if the deal goes sour then all you guys hired , stand to be fired.And the chances of the deal going sour , according to yours truly , are pretty bright.:ok:

agreed Sky. also, one of the conditions for the THY wet lease, is that like the last time, they simply do not want Indian pilots. (for whatever reason)

Just to clarify...THY require a JAR/EASA Licence..whereas Jet will give you an Indian Validation on most ICAO Licences...for someone who has retired and just wants 12 months extra employment ,it gives you a chance to escape the dragon at home and get paid to do it...And remember THY pay in Turkish Lire not USD,four years ago USD$1=1.5 YTL..now it's 1.8 YTL, so about a 20% pay drop in USD terms...

No Dragon to escape at home..I left her 25 years ago....remember this is only a short term contract 1 year, 12 months, 365 days...if you want to go flying, do it on their terms or not at all....if it doesn't suit, forget it entirely...as I have said earlier we are all prostitutes in this contract game and the high moral ground will change nothing..

Zlin
 

Thanks to people like you our career has been spiraling down disgustingly for the latest 15 years.
For people like you shame, dignity, honor, pride are meaningless words.
As for being prostitutes do not judge the others by your own rules and "values".:ugh:

:):):):):):):):):):):):):):)

Indeed...
 

The indian pilots made it very clear that they wouldn't accept to be "posted" outside India more that 15 consecutive days a month!...
But the expats...

Jet Pilots' body against extension of deadline for expat pilots
 

Deja vu for the umpteenth time.

Bulk of the 737 pilots terminated in Aug. & Sept. last year. Talk of the rest gone by year's end.

No more expat A330 skippers as of last fall.

Same with a few ATR skippers being terminated too. More to go as more FOs get their command on the ATR.

The 777 group will also become extinct as skippers transition from the baby Boeing. That however will happen at a much slowe pace than with the other fleets.

There is career progression at Jet as they promote FOs to the left seat, and they are hiring 100 FOs off the street, another omission from the article. That said, India is not known for its accuracy and fact checking as it comes to its print media.

The true enemy
 

This make evident how the local pilots, with the help of local media, are shortsighted: there's no jobs enough for the simple reason that the international air traffic in India is 70% dominated by international carriers ( namely ME carriers) and there's no any goverment policy to protect and improve the local airlines (except support the huge mammouth Air India at the expense of taxpayers).
It's not a few dozen of expats that will make any difference on jobs availability for the young Indian CPL holder.
As always, the locals aim their guns on the wrong direction... :ugh::{

The pilot body will influence and question decisions which affect them directly. It really isn't their place to question and/or influence higher level policy decisions. Way beyond their pay grade. These higher level decisions are better left to the ballot box. Even if their intentions were to try to steer the nations aviation policy in a certain direction, best to pick low hanging fruit ie FATA extensions, before moving to bigger issues.

What's holding up career progression for locals is limited training resources. Easier and more efficient to hire expats to fill the gap.

The days of expats in India are slowly but surely coming to an end, if it isn't obvious already. When I flew as an FO in one of the LCC's between '06 and '09, the expat-local captain ratio was almost 50/50. Now they have terminated all expat contracts and are solely relying on local crews. The local supply has caught up with the dwindling demand and the inevitable has happened. No point in blaming the local guys for their actions. It was only a matter of time.

I do, however, take exception to the fact fudging that is so prevalent in Indian aviation. It isn't easy to move shop for expats, and often they are treated as dispensable labour with no long term consideration for their well being. I guess it comes with the territory.

Good luck to all.

I posted something a couple days back , it's for the EY deal.The THY deal is over.Jet has major plans for AUH as their hub but time will tell if they will be successful , and if not that would mean another job hunt for the 777 drivers.

I spoke with the Snr Gen Mgr Ops Planning two days ago.
The THY deal is signed.
The first aircraft will operate from 1st June on a daily IST-LHR-IST-DXB-IST rotation giving plenty of line training (induction) sectors and good a/c utilisation.
A/c 2 & 3 are planned to start in August when it is anticipated that adequate crews will have been recruited and trained to allow the IST-GRU-EZE-GRU-IST-ICN-IST rotations to start.
Indian DGCA scheduling rules are quite restrictive for long sectors involving multiple timezone changes which gives a higher crewing requirement than might otherwise be expected and is a significant influence on Jet's preference for a 6 weeks on 2 off pattern.
There are 30+ pilots who have been screened and contracts issued but only ONE pilot has, at the time of writing, commenced his ground school induction.

HTH
S.T.

Yes
 

Pretty accurate.
But of course it depends on how truthful is the info at the hands of Snr Mngr...:confused:
9W have an historic of changing their minds with the wind.
Time will tell.

Thank you for your qualified approval. Please give us all the benefit of the TOTALLY accurate info that you are obviously in possession of.

S.T.

YES
 

Marvel you're spot on again.

Jet's management needs to realize that the pool of cheapely available drivers, living on fat pensions and willing to give anything to get strapped to a flight deck, (Snr Thrash et caterva come to mind...) is dried.

However, like you've mentioned on post # 235, it looks like they are already late. Even if they offer a REAL contract there's the long history about Jet's mismanegements with expats, exaustively discussed here.

Salaries still come in on the 15th of each month:{

Though we are informed that the revised salary agreement will come into force from next month:) Some relief!

No news on arrears as yet:(

Looks like Jet Airways got what it asked for

Civil Aviation Ministry asks airlines to limit number of 'privileged' seats - The Economic Times

DGCA Deadline
 

'Old wine in new bottle' served down throats by Jet.:bored:

I fully agree with Marvelman.
Its high time to expose the going ons in Indian aviation. From the DGCA, to Air India, the private carriers and the government posturing.

The terms are well and truly insulting, with an eye to capturing the over 60 bunch who have no where to go.

Is travel to from during the 20 or 10?

Thank you TAC!
 

I can't stop laughing on this one, the best joke of the year so far:

" If you don't like the terms write the company, at this point they are thinking there aren't any B777 captains out there."

Yes! If we don't tell them they won't realize this fact of life!
Advertising on 5 agencies since late last year and only a handfull of captains!

I'm LFMAO!

Some people have a short memory, Jet terminated expat contract 777/330 a few years back when things did not work out the way Jet wanted. Only time will tell if it happens again , my guess is it wont last the term of the contract.Best of luck to those who go.