No news OBP from Jet about the 777s. Very tight lipped until deals are done and dusted.

Guys just looking for help...

Can anybody pm or post the email ID for Jet HR or concerned person for A330 and B777 recruitments for experianced jet pilots...

thanx in advance..:rolleyes::rolleyes:

The 6/2 arrangement is absolutely ridiculous. Everytime the agencies advertise a 6/2 duty rotation, I have never bothered to have a second look. 19 days on and 11 days off is doable as it can in Korean. My ideal would be 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off. My brother is an oil rig engineer and his 2 weeks on/ 2 weeks off worked like a charm for the past 20 years with additional 2 months leave on top of that. Airline duty rotations really sucks, that is his opinion!

Well said Calvin!
 

"The 6/2 arrangement is absolutely ridiculous. Everytime the agencies advertise a 6/2 duty rotation, I have never bothered to have a second look. 19 days on and 11 days off is doable as it can in Korean. My ideal would be 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off. My brother is an oil rig engineer and his 2 weeks on/ 2 weeks off worked like a charm for the past 20 years with additional 2 months leave on top of that. Airline duty rotations really sucks, that is his opinion! "

It works only for the desperates or the incredible greedy grandpas fed up of the fat ugly wifey or the boredom of the golf club.
The latest group formed the majority of the last bunch at Jet.
As mentioned, Air Force medical put down more than 50% of the grannies. Not speaking about the other numerous hurdles.

Jet Deal
 

True, it's not the most glorious job in the world, but I would like to know who stands by their employees even when they are grounded. Additionally, the economic situation forced it to cut back on routes and therefore the expats. Since they had a contract, they fulfilled everything to the T. Yes, the way things are done in terms of roster and the delays in getting on line take a little getting used to, but I get my check on time regardless of flying and they honor my contract. What's the complain?! Seems to me people just complain because they can! I had no issues with them and the agency that I went through being local was a great asset to me when I moved.

So...
 

Why you left, M5?
It's livable if you have no family or for a few months, as it seems to be your situation.
I sincerely doubt anybody could be happy 6 weeks out of 8 away from family. From that 2 weeks off you loose at least 3 days trip time, as you commute on YOUR days off.

I totally agree with you.:ok:

Hey TAC
 

Not an ofense but you sound either be management or a contractor, making this appear as easy as a walk in the park.
You aren't even touching the main issue which is the cruel rotation.
For the lonely souls who don't have anybody to care about or vice versa that maybe fine!

This rotation is absolutely unnecessary for long haul job. It's easily possible to produce the same on a more human working pattern.

But, as long as there are people who will accept anything to get strapped to a flight deck, this terms won't change. Jet used to have one of the best contracts in the world. They changed it when they realized the available number of greedy grannies fed up of wife or the golf course.

Thanks them, terms and conditions have been eroding relentlessly.
Disgusting:mad:

9W is offering the better contract for those over the tender age of 55. Pay commences upon entering India for training.

TMU pay if one is medically grounded. Who else provides that? Never miss payroll. Name brand hotels with amenities. I realize other carriers in the M/E and the Far East may provide the same benefits... however if one is over 55 no DECs except for QATAR and KAL, as far as I know.

At the end of the day, the menu of life is limited. Either you accept the contract offered by 9W or you don't. The choices are not very complicated.

I think the bottom feeder carrier is Ethiopian along with those pimps who join that lot. $60 of daily per diem until last line check has been completed. What do you think about the miscreants being part of a revenue crew on a 777 at $60 per day?:mad: That's less than minimum wage in many countries.

Dodgy contracts
 

I agree the rotation is piss poor and if they are going to need many people, they're going to have to sweeten the deal. But the way people make out the company to sound dodgy isn't right. I left for a better more long term solution and while I was there, i was fully aware of the terms and conditions when I signed on. So where they. I would have reason to complain had they not honored their end of the contract.

I'm sure a couple of pimps who flew revenue flights at Ethiopian without pay will jump ship to Jet. I hope they brag to their new colleagues at Jet how proud they were to pimp themselves out by being part of the problem:mad:

Not talking about Jet Airways. Its their peers who should find pimps objectionable amongst their ranks.

OPEN YOUR EYES.....
 

Well, someone has to come out and say it, so here goes:
First some history...This is NOT horn tooting..I've been an expat pilot a long time.

I am fortunate enough to have been on the 777 since its near inception. Yes, I was very young and while all the older guys near retirement were clamouring to get on this beautiful airplane, at 47 I was working for a ME carrier and became an TRE/TRI on it. I didn't renew my contract and moved over to a large Asian carrier.

The adage of 'grass is always greener' stung me but good. One day a couple of us guys decided that this Jet Airways gig would be a good one, so we applied and got an interview.

The first actions should have really opened my eyes, but it didn't. The thought of helping out a B777 'new-comer airline' clouded my thinking. Did I have something to give? You bet I did and still do..I have over 7500 logged on this machine. I am still current and I am also fully 787 qualified.

I was hired 'over the phone'. Then there was silence. Then numerous phone calls, then "why don't you come over and have an interview'. Well, it took forever and a day to get a visa to start with. The security clearance...what a laugh, so after a few weeks, and a 'window' of a few days to make it into the secret society of India, I was off to the beautiful and romantic city of Mumbai. The morning came early and off I went to Jet Airways 'ivory tower'. Now what a mixed up, over-crowded, disorganized place this turned out to be. An elevator that holds a maximum of 2 people...me and the elevator operator...and away we go!

There was an interview and we were off to do a simulator assessment. Joke time. The TRE was a useless inexperienced egotistical sh*t from a part of the ex-Commonwealth located near Antarctica. He should have stayed there. After a total useless series of maneuvers that showed me nothing more than he knew where to find selections to provide multiple failures that proved nothing, I landed a dismantled airplane. Pass.

The fun then began. Sign the contract.

SHELL GAME..........
Well, I had an acquaintance at IBM, a lawyer whom I met several months earlier. This person was in charge of contracts between Big Blue and company clients in the Sub-Continent. I was WARNED....DON'T DO IT!

Well, this is aviation and what did a lawyer know about it anyways?

No sooner had the ink dried, changes started to take place. The TRE position that I was offered, turned into a regular line pilot position. In retrospect that was good. I couldn't have withstood the BS. I had a European base of Brussels. Good. I didn't have to live in Mumbai.

Then, there were the hoops of the DGCA, even more fun. I can't vouch for what its like now, but it was a 'gong-show'.....Prep for an interview with the 'biggies' in their office in Delhi...scurrying here...scurrying there..finally coming out of it with agreement that I could be licensed there based on my current licenses (I was current in several countries).

So then it was all of the conversion course fun...SEP, Security, Planning and Performance, and my favorite...Monsoon Met where some guy came in and tried to sell us his book that he printed back in 1886 or something. Off to get a nice uniform, then sent home.

I should have had some thoughts going through my head here...we were spirited through the Mumbai scenes and had to find a place to get our residence permits...

I eventually ended up working out of SFO as the airline began its BOM-PVG-SFO operation. I had spent 8 years working the NOPAC and SOPAC routes with the 777 and was very familiar.

Interestingly, about 4 months into the contract, my pay didn't arrive. In fact, it didn't arrive for for a few days. It was 9 days late! None of us had our pay. We questioned it and were told...'Oh, we're sorry!' No other explanations. So I continued to truck back and forth between PVG and SFO for a few months...then.....the operation quit and we all ended up in Mumbai. BTW...the pay was arriving up to 2 weeks late and continued that way for the rest of the contract! OPEN YOUR EYES!!!!

We stayed at a reasonable hotel in the beginning but then, over night, we had to move to a horrid place. The food was lousy and we would find ourself in a Tuk-Tuk, going to other hotels to find something to eat. We complained, but no one listened.

Then, tickets began to arrive late. In fact, I was scheduled to be in London to deadhead to Mumbai. I was asked if I could pay my way and I'd get reimbursed. NOPE! NOT ME...If you want me to fly the airplane from LHR, you'd better get me there. They did.

We then got notice that the airline was going to wet least to nearly every carrier in the world....Lets see..6 months in Turkey, 4 months in Bahrain. To their credit, Turkish offered most of us a good contract. Some excellent pilots went over there, but I wasn't interested in a 6 and 2. BTW..the standard contract at Jet always was 6 and 2. If you're going to do contract work, get used to it.

I hung in there and after 42 years of continuous service working as an airline pilot...it took Jet Airways.....TO LAY ME OFF! I couldn't stop laughing for a week. The rest is history.

If you are willing to work on a contract that means nothing, this job is YOURS!

Its been said that there are some who are paying their way over to go to work. Well, you retired guys who are 'double dipping', using your company passes to fly to work (and you know who you are), buy hotel rooms with your old airline ID at a better rate, only serve to undercut those legitimate guys who are actually trying to eek out a living. Its quite amusing because many of those who are doing this were some of the biggest unionists out there. How greed changes things.

'Nuf said.

First time expat gigs are needless to say a culture shock. Especially workig for a legacy carrier for 30 plus years. But we all know what happened to pay, terms and conditions, and retirement benefits at DAL, USAirways, United, NW to name a few.

In 23 years, I've never had any contracting agency nor carrier follow the tems and conditions to the letter. Most, performed to the best of their ability in good faith. If pay was late, yeah, yeah I questioned it. Yeah they said they were sorry about the pay. I am an educated consumer. When I see hand writing on wall, or expirence such abhorant behavior by the airline, or contracting agency, its time to move on.

Perhaps pay issues were a bit different with Jet before 2010. Yeah I know pay was supposed to be in the bank on or about the 1st of each month. Well its not. Its in the bank on or about the middle of the month.

While the length of the contract may be stated in writing, however economic conditions change, employment requirements, and work visa issues change, thus requiring, resulting in premature termination, or foreclosure of the contract.

Contrary to popular belief, Jet honored their side of their contract when expats were terminated last year. Most pilots remained on the property for the term of the termination section (be it 1 or 3 months) with uninterrupted pay. Terminated pilots were given recommendation letters and adequate time to secure employment elsewhere.

How many carriers in the US that do this, be they a union or nonunion shop?

It's a shame that it's no longer a perfect world for an expat.

FACT...
 

Well, you've totally missed the message. Jet would love to take anybody. They will promise the 'world'. In fact, they'd probably offer a base in Timbuktu, if you wanted it.

The fact is, that it appears that you've never been employed in India, experienced the bureaucracy and the rest of it.

There is a travel advert. that is played on some of the world's large news networks....and it shows all the 'hot spots'......

It ends with: 'INCREDIBLE, India'! Read the first word carefully and take it out of its context and you will get the drift.

All of you wannabes...GO FOR IT...You've been forewarned. And..I could write a book on Employment Agencies....THATS another story.

....I think I'll go and watch tennis....Its a nice day!

The code has been borken:D. For the most part that's what expat flying is all about. Expats do not displace nor inconvenience the nationals at any. Expats provide a convenience through which airline expansion minimizes disruption the local's time away from their families.

I can only speak for the 737 fleet. Once the last route check has been completed, expats are fair game to be transferred to any base as required by the company. It's in the contract, and its the luck of the draw.

I can't speak for the 777 crowd, but I know it applied to the A330 group when they were around. Many of the expats who I met were based in Brussels, with a few in Mumbai and Delhi. While they had to submit to the Indian medical they still did not have AEPs. They needed a copy of the GD to gain access to the airport terminals in India.

Some expats were able to wrangle their rosters so they would begin and end their trips near their home airports in North America. As I recall, the last group hired were based in Mumbai.

However, I did hear that initial basing for the 777 will be in Mubai. They too may be transferred and or rotated in and out of operating bases where the leased 777s will be based.

Bases....
 

Hmm...familiar...Mumbai...Delhi..NO..Mumbai...no...Delhi...

Has anybody thought of what routes they are actually going to put these aircraft on? The market has soured. These 777s don't fit the normal configuration. Goyal bought some beautiful aircraft but don't meet any other airlines configuration profiles. These aircraft have an unreal BOW..granite counter-tops. They are expensive machines to operate.

I'm amused.....

Past or Present....
 

....worked there 2 years on the 777......

Corsair_F4U asks Culture shock for first time expats with many years of service with a legacy carrier of their own country. The old saying goes "we're no longer in Kansas Toto.".

I'm quite interested in working for Jet Airways. I have worked in India before, so know what's involved as far as the country is concerned.

I'm not particularly interested in a commuting roster, if I had to be based in Mumbai. I'd prefer to live there and not pay tax in the UK.

A base in Europe would be better though, even if I did get stung for tax. In that case I'd like a roster that allows me to get home for a couple of days between trips, though not sure yet if I'd live in the UK or somewhere else in Europe (I'm a UK citizen). I'm not keen on 20 days on and ten off; ideally I'd like a minimum 10 days off per month, perhaps in two blocks of five, accommodation allowance or, even better, good accommodation provided if based in Mumbai, plus unlimited ID 90's, and health insurance for myself and family, plus an end of contract bonus. .

Maybe wishful thinking, but I'd jump at it if the conditions were right.

Hotbreak, what makes you think I'm not current on type? Or that I won't pass a medical or the assessment? They're hardly going to advertise for pilots and then fail everyone on their assessment, are they? A pretty daft post if you ask me.

Can't quite get why hotbreak and others are getting so excited about doing a "manual raw data ILS 35knts, ninety degrees cross on the right seat auto trust off". Having been on the 777 for an awful long time the excitement in saying the above - is just that: in saying it. Most modern airlines have that rather nice bit of information called TRACK and when on the localiser and TRACKING the inbound course then who gives a rats ass what the wind is! Now if the so called "checker " in the back wants to fool around with the wind from right xwind to left to right then that can be a challenge - but that is just being foolish.

Thing is most airlines want you to use automation to its fullest extent. Come interview time one then has to show how good you are with no automation!!
Something wrong here I think.

Yeah , i know button pushing magenta line, map displays, and what not... No brainer stuff. At the end of the day nothing wrong. They want to see if you can handle the jet when the chips are down. All assessments for jobs over my 35+ career has been raw data. Some with winds and turbulence thrown in for good measure. Good fun:ok:. I conduct line training with a good deal of hands on raw data flying... even for approaches. Good for proficiency and confidence building.

Most of the local FO's are children of the magenta line( Zero real flying skills) experienced first hand. Sorry but true.

HotBrakes
 

Hey Corsair
 

Don't do it

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Unless you:

- hate your family or the life you have back home;
- or, reversely, are hated by them;
- or are desperately broken,

India can be a tough place to work, especially Mumbai, but there are plenty of worse places to consider doing a contract and you will overall appreciate your experience there even if to say, "been there, done that."

Having flown for Jet Airways on more than one contract, I would suggest you go into the opportunity with an open mind. Some things they do better than Western carriers and will sort of blow your mind. While other things they do will make you laugh. No airline is perfect and the grass is always greener I suppose.

You can expect your contract to get violated here and there but it will be mostly honored. That is the same in the Western world so no nothing new there. When Jet violated my T&Cs I gave it back to them in work ethic, or lack thereof. So what goes around comes around... and they knew it. A lot of times directives to cut this or that from the pilot T&Cs come from way above. And those upper level execs are pretty much clueless as to what results come from screwing over skilled equipment operators. The mid-level managers are powerless in the process so they don't seem all that bothered when a pilot loses motivation to help out. Just the way it goes in business.

The government there has done a stellar job of helping Indians to be proud of their country vs 10-15 years ago. Often that comes across as offensive or racist to the foreign expat worker. But that is government's job, to promote nationalism, so I can find little fault there in both their government or their citizens. It's harder for us Westernes to understand that because so many millions of foreigners, especially South Asians, are welcomed in our country with open arms while in India it is the complete opposite. The problem lies within when those who work in the gov't infrastructure, or corporate institutions, refuse to accept criticism or suggestions because they believe in "the Indian way". I think that's a lot of the reason of why aviation there has sort of stalled in it's growth trajectory, as well as the overall Indian economy (see: India headed for economic doom, prominent US thinktank says - The Times of India). Sometimes they seem to want to reinvent the wheel when there are far simpler ways to address certain problems. But it's their country, so let them do with it what they want.

If you accept employment there, just understand that you are a very temporary contract worker. They don't have anything against you personally, unless your an a$$hole, but they just want you out sooner than later because they want to "Indian-ize" everything they can.

The irony is, as much as the younger pilots complain about foreign pilots, they often loathe their Indian senior commanders, many of which are Machiavellian or autocratic in their cockpit management style. So while they complain to their friends about "foreign pilots delaying their command training", they equally complain about the Indian commanders who won't give them any flying or who bite their hand every time they assert themselves in a CRM situation.

Well said, TAC!
 

"Oh I’m sure they will get a few captains with low self esteem, under qualified, broke, or just plain dirt stupid, but the rest need to stand your ground."

The vast majority that joined after the contract went to the current stage were types described above, with the plain stupid ones being the biggest group.

The advertised need of 75 or 100 pilots is obviously unrealistic as this is only a way the management message the locals to behave well otherwise no more promotions from the 737...

On the other hand company policy has been like this: they hired a lot of expats for 777 to furlough them all at he early onset of the crisis, in 2008/9. It was the same on A330 and more recently, following a recruitment boom on 737 they fired the pilots after few months on the property...policy changes with wind direction. Some resigned from Ryanair for this adventure and find themselves jobless. Hardly any consistent business plan.

Read somewhere that there is a Malaysian ex MAS/Jetairways bigwig who can help fast track pilots into Jet Airways. Is he still actively in the business? Any contacts? What are the chances of someone with about 2600 PIC hours on the B737 getting in as DEC? Thank you.

Adequate staffing for FOs to upgrade on the 737. That said no exPat hiring into the 737 for the foreseeable future.

Were?...
 

Which agencies are offering those 3 options?...:confused:

Oldbold...Option C would get my attention, but that's not on offer right now?

NOPE
 

These "options" are just wishfull thinking.
The only option available is the 6 x 2, 11K.
Of course, if there's no takers they will have to come up with something better.

Jet to dry lease 3 Boeing 777 to Turkish for 1 year and take in 2 Boeing 777 for themselves

Jet Airways to extend code-share with Etihad - The Economic Times

Jet Airways Recruitment in Malaysia
 

San Pedro, I trust you are referring to a certain titled ex MAS low life by the name of latuk g stringh. Read this thread which had, unfortunately, been closed:

http://www.pprune.org/south-asia-far...itment+Malasia

Hi all

This question may of been asked or answered on here before but I can't find it. Does anyone know what the hotel situation is for this? I've heard from a few people that they are currently using the premier inn at LHR as they didn't pay their previous hotel bill, but in HKG they are using the Conrad? Is this correct? What are the hotels like in BOM/DEL for the contracted pilots?

Many thanks if anyonme could give me an update, thanks

Thanks OBP

What are the layover like in LHR/HKG I'm guessing anything from 24-36hrs?

Thought they were in the Conrad as seen an airline there with similar uniforms.

Are you based on the 777?

Following services to be operated by Jet Airways Boeing 777-300ER aircraft:
Istanbul Ataturk – London Heathrow 03JUN13 – 30JUN13 TK1985/1986 Daily
Istanbul Ataturk – Sao Paulo – Buenos Aires eff 01JUL13 Daily
Istanbul Ataturk – Seoul Incheon eff 01JUL13 Daily (Replacing A340-300)

Comfort Class service is not available on Jet Airways aircraft while First Class cabin is sold as Business Class.

I previously worked at Jet Airways on a 6 week on 2 week off contract, survived that..no big deal.!

Corsair
 

Corsair you're spot on!
Nobody in their right mind set can imagine any kind of family quality life on this kind of rotation.
Too much to give up for too little in return.
Only greed or desperation could justify such a move.